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Europe Trains Guide Forum  |  General discussion  |  Train fares and tariffs  |  Tariff table for sleeping car reservations of BČ, RŽD and UZ.
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Author Topic: Tariff table for sleeping car reservations of BČ, RŽD and UZ.  (Read 14865 times)
rasha
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« on: April 01, 2011, 06:02:01 pm »

Recently i found tariff tables for sleeping car reservations of BČ, RŽD and UZ. It is for the year 2010, but in 2011 prices remain same. Here it is:

BČ: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Feheroroszorszag_BC/BC%20halokocsiarak.xls
RŽD: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Oroszorszag_RZD/RZD%20h%E1l%F3kocsi%E1rak%202010.xls
UZ: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Ukrajna_UZ/ukran%20halokocsiarak.xls

RŽD table shows international, interstate (exSSSR) and domestic prices, BČ and UZ show only international (BČ not complete). For UZ interstate and domestic prices you can see here: http://zakon1.rada.gov.ua/cgi-bin/laws/main.cgi?nreg=z0806-08 (Ukrainian language only, add 20% to showed price on ukrainan website due to a taxes).
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 06:34:44 pm by rasha » Logged
jfk
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2011, 08:43:55 pm »

Thanks, this is very interesting.

If the prices are correct, it would mean that for some domestic Russian trains it is cheaper to purchase ticket & reservation abroad using East-West tariff than to buy them in Russia.

For example, SV ticket for train 001 Krasnaya Strela from St Peterburg to Moscow bought online on rzd.ru costs 5531 RUB, which is approx. 137 EUR. First class ticket in East West tariff for the same route costs 39.90 EUR (according to www.jizdenka.cz) + reservation 82 EUR = 121.90 EUR.
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tUt
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2011, 03:38:08 pm »

Rasha, thanx for the links. dijszabas is good resource, though sometimes troubling with updates, but anyway useful.

First class ticket in East West tariff for the same route costs 39.90 EUR (according to www.jizdenka.cz)
Not quite, CD sells tickets for Russia with 30% discount from the original East-West fare, so jizdenka shows the fare with already included discount. Actual 1st class ticket (East-West) costs a bit more.
If the prices are correct, it would mean that for some domestic Russian trains it is cheaper to purchase ticket & reservation abroad using East-West tariff than to buy them in Russia.
You might be surprised, but actually it used to be a whole business for certain people - purchasing Russian domestic tickets in Europe (ticket usually in Slovakia or Czech Republic, while reservation anywhere with access to Russian system - usually Switzerland, Germany etc.). Even with this guys "agency" commission, mailing expenses etc. such set of ticket+reservation used to be cheaper in many cases than Russian domestic tickets with domestic tariff. But like 2 years ago RZD had enough of it and raised dramatically East-West reservations for Russian domestic trains, as result making such trick almost useful in most cases. For instance, for high-speed daytime Moscow-St.Petersburg (ER200) reservation fare changed from 4 EUR to 62 EUR, for most long-distance in app. two times etc.
So nowadays actual bargain can be only MPT with relatively cheap reservations, but here also certain limitations are present.
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rasha
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2011, 10:02:49 pm »

So nowadays actual bargain can be only MPT with relatively cheap reservations, but here also certain limitations are present.

And using UZ, BČ and KZH cars on domestic Russian trips Citystar. There are some good news about using BČ cars because from the CIS states timetable change on late May trains 144/143 Brest - Novosibirsk - Brest and 64/63 Minsk - Irkutsk - Minsk will go via Moskva Kurskaya*Nizhny Novgorod. There's only problem because you cannot buy reservation for inland RŽD connection in BČ car via EPA or in Russia for East-West tariff. But you can buy for example Irkutsk - Orscha (first Belarus station), and leave the train in Moscow. You will pay 56 EUR for reservation Irkutsk - Orscha in BČ car instead of 156 EUR for reservation Irkutsk - Moskva in RŽD car. But question is what will happen in opposite direction if you have reservation Orscha - Irkutsk and you want to board the train in Moscow. Reservations for UZ cars cannot be bought via EPA (exept from Mocow to Ukraine), but can be bought via fax reservation at DB, but requires few days to be confirmed. That way inland RŽD connections in UZ cars are available (but sometimes declined, there's no real rule), and also since there is East-West reservations tariff table for plackartniy, 3rd class it should be also available. That way, for example reservations Harkov - Vladivostok in platskartniy will be only 46 EUR, or Kiev - Vladivostok in kupe 85 EUR.
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jfk
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 10:09:33 am »

Thanks tUt and rasha for interesting information.

Just out of my curiosity, is it possible to book also VIP compartments in Krasnaya Strela using East-West tarrif? The domestic price as quoted on rzd.ru is over 16 000 RUB (415 EUR).  Now that would be awesome if the E-W tarriff does not differentiate between the categories SV and SV-VIP :)

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That way, for example reservations Harkov - Vladivostok in platskartniy will be only 46 EUR, or Kiev - Vladivostok in kupe 85 EUR.

Rasha, you have some very interesting info here. However, I could not find the connection Kiev (Harkov) - Vladivostok in UZ reservations tables you provided. Therefore, my question is: Is it possible to get somewhere the definite list of trains/direct sleeping cars in former CIS countries on which is possible to purchase reservations using East-West tariff?
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rasha
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 12:46:32 pm »

Rasha, you have some very interesting info here. However, I could not find the connection Kiev (Harkov) - Vladivostok in UZ reservations tables you provided. Therefore, my question is: Is it possible to get somewhere the definite list of trains/direct sleeping cars in former CIS countries on which is possible to purchase reservations using East-West tariff?

For UZ interstate and domestic prices you can see here: http://zakon1.rada.gov.ua/cgi-bin/laws/main.cgi?nreg=z0806-08 (Ukrainian language only, add 20% to showed price on ukrainan website due to a taxes).

On this link at the table III. Вартість плацкарти в міжнародному сполученні  Схід-Захід
у спальних вагонах України ( в євро без ПДВ)
you see the prices in EUR for reservations per kilometer for UZ cars. You just have to add 20% because it is the price without VAT. You just then need to find out distance beetween stations which you can easily do at http://www.mza.ru/?exp=1.

There are reservation lists of RŽD (http://www.uic.org/IMG/pdf/rzd_2011_information_-_2.pdf) and BČ (http://www.uic.org/IMG/pdf/s_12.2010.pdf) and trains on those lists are certanly bookable, but in practice there are a lot of more bookable trains. UZ don't provide reservation lists, because their system is not connected to European EPA, but UZ reservations can be booked at DB via FAX.
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tUt
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2011, 01:25:50 pm »

So nowadays actual bargain can be only MPT with relatively cheap reservations, but here also certain limitations are present.
And using UZ, BČ and KZH cars on domestic Russian trips Citystar.
Definitely, but the only thing is that there is extremely low number of non-RZD carriages for RZD domestic use.
There's only problem because you cannot buy reservation for inland RŽD connection in BČ car via EPA or in Russia for East-West tariff. But you can buy for example Irkutsk - Orscha (first Belarus station), and leave the train in Moscow. You will pay 56 EUR for reservation Irkutsk - Orscha in BČ car instead of 156 EUR for reservation Irkutsk - Moskva in RŽD car.
Similar cool trick here is also use of Irkutsk/Novosibirsk etc.-Terespol reservations (basically it frees you from BČ carriages, thus can use relatively low populated RZD RIC instead). RZD-BČ reservations with East-West is actually more expensive than RZD-PKP, so Novosibirsk-Brest reservation is more expensive than Novosibirsk-Terespol etc. But if you original idea is Moscow, than, I guess, there just a need to look which one will be cheaper (depending on your starting destination) - X-Orsha (with BČ) or X-Terespol (with RZD). 
  But question is what will happen in opposite direction if you have reservation Orscha - Irkutsk and you want to board the train in Moscow.
Imho, nothing. You have all the necessary travel docs (ticket+reservation for certain route) and it doesn't matter whether you board the train at the station listed as starting (in your case Orsha) or any other throughout the actual route (for instance Moscow). Similar question was many times discussed about domestic tickets and boarding on station later than originating. Some time ago passenger was suppose to send free telegram and notify about late boarding, but later this rule was dropped, so now you can board the train at any station of the route.
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tUt
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 01:41:40 pm »

Just out of my curiosity, is it possible to book also VIP compartments in Krasnaya Strela using East-West tarrif? The domestic price as quoted on rzd.ru is over 16 000 RUB (415 EUR).  Now that would be awesome if the E-W tarriff does not differentiate between the categories SV and SV-VIP
Well, international tariff is only written for 1st and 2nd class, so with ticket it is not a problem, but with reservation there is one, in tariff book you can find only 1/2 and 1/1, both, as you can guess, applicable only to standard SV.
In theory, from tariff point of view SV and SV-VIP are different only by the sleeper reservation fare, but in practice we doubt that RZD actually cared to "invent" non domestic international MTP/East-West fares for reservations "above" 1/1. And on the contrary, you can't have two 1/1's - one for standard single SV and one for SV-Vip, so as result, probably it is impossible to purchase international tariff reservation for SV-Vip. But maybe some non-professional cashier might actually try to sell you domestic reservation to international MPT or East-West ticket in such case, at least we heard about such practice time to time concerning 'kupe'.
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rasha
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 02:33:13 pm »

Similar cool trick here is also use of Irkutsk/Novosibirsk etc.-Terespol reservations (basically it frees you from BČ carriages, thus can use relatively low populated RZD RIC instead). RZD-BČ reservations with East-West is actually more expensive than RZD-PKP, so Novosibirsk-Brest reservation is more expensive than Novosibirsk-Terespol etc. But if you original idea is Moscow, than, I guess, there just a need to look which one will be cheaper (depending on your starting destination) - X-Orsha (with BČ) or X-Terespol (with RZD).

I think that BČ T4 is slightly cheaper then RŽD T3 in this case. Example Irkutsk - Minsk BČ T4 - 56 EUR, Irkutsk - Warszawa RŽD T3 63 EUR. And in my expirience it's more comfortable to use wide profile kupe (T4) carriages then narrow RIC T3.

Imho, nothing. You have all the necessary travel docs (ticket+reservation for certain route) and it doesn't matter whether you board the train at the station listed as starting (in your case Orsha) or any other throughout the actual route (for instance Moscow). Similar question was many times discussed about domestic tickets and boarding on station later than originating. Some time ago passenger was suppose to send free telegram and notify about late boarding, but later this rule was dropped, so now you can board the train at any station of the route.

Well, there could be one problem with this in CIS countries because in lot of cases tickets at en-route stations are sold only few hours before departure and without berth number specified, only carriage. Provodnik showes free places to them. So if you board later your berth can be occupied.
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tUt
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2011, 02:54:56 pm »

And in my expirience it's more comfortable to use wide profile kupe (T4) carriages then narrow RIC T3.
Yepp, many people still prefer old type Ammendorf so-called "chocolate" carriages instead of small RIC compartments. But some also not very happy to have 4 people (often changing many times on long-distance routes) at the same compartment. Anyway, it is a matter of preferences.
there could be one problem with this in CIS countries because in lot of cases tickets at en-route stations are sold only few hours before departure and without berth number specified, only carriage. Provodnik showes free places to them. So if you board later your berth can be occupied.
Hmm... we think it is rather old problem, nowadays almost all the tickets are with seat numbers. So it is just a matter of some ticket selling limitations (after train crosses the border, departs from origin station etc.), but when you already do a have a chance to buy the ticket (limitations are lifted), then it will be with exact seat typed. But anyway, system will not allow sale of more than 18, 36, 54 etc. tickets for one carriage, thus the most horrible thing that can happen is that you(or provodnik) will have to ask the passenger on your seat/bed to move to the other available in the same carriage.
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2011, 12:54:35 am »

BČ: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Feheroroszorszag_BC/BC%20halokocsiarak.xls
RŽD: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Oroszorszag_RZD/RZD%20h%E1l%F3kocsi%E1rak%202010.xls
UZ: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Ukrajna_UZ/ukran%20halokocsiarak.xls[/url

Sadly, my pc does not recognise those file names, any idea on how to proceed?

Do BC and RZD publish MPT and MGPT fares somewhere?

Jizdenka states a certain amount for Polish-Russian journeys (yet not fixed, as Terespol-Naushki is cheaper than Naushki-Vladivistok). Is this the East-West Fare? Any discount available in Polish-Russian trafic (such as City Star)?

Same question on jizdenka quotes for Belarus-Russia very long-distance trafic? Is this TCV, Domestic fare or MPT?
Thx for any tips ;-)

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tUt
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2011, 02:17:50 am »

Sadly, my pc does not recognise those file names, any idea on how to proceed?
We emailed you those files in a bit more standard excel format, so check the mail you entered when registered for our forum
Do BC and RZD publish MPT and MGPT fares somewhere?
Well, MGPT fares you can actually check on BC and RZD websites (and even purchase tickets), since both websites offer access to "Ekspress" system. With MPT it is a bit more complicated, since neither BC or RZD publish there tariff tables. With RZD you can actually check real time MPT fares, but the service is available either for cashiers (thus you need to go to the ticket counter yourself and ask) or on paid website, thus no free online source.
But a little out of date tariffs can be seen here - http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=5125 (click on magnifying glass sign to the left from trains listed and you can see all the details, unfortunately in Russian, but google translator might help)
Jizdenka states a certain amount for Polish-Russian journeys (yet not fixed, as Terespol-Naushki is cheaper than Naushki-Vladivistok). Is this the East-West Fare? Any discount available in Polish-Russian trafic (such as City Star)? Same question on jizdenka quotes for Belarus-Russia very long-distance trafic? Is this TCV, Domestic fare or MPT?
Any ticket purchased in Poland or Czech Republic for international routes PKP/CD-BC/RZD or domestic/interstate routes like BC-RZD or just domestic RZD would be issued only with East-West tariff, so no choice here. The only way to buy tickets (domestic fare) within Russia is either at the ticket counters in Russia or online from RZD/agency websites. MPT tickets from BC/RZD can be bought only at the ticket counter in Russia/Belarus, no online option.
And no, there is no CityStar from Poland or Czech Republic to Russia or Belarus. CityStars to Russia available only from Slovakia, Serbia and Bulgaria. With PKP-RZD the only discounts are for groups >6 and children (more here http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=737)
The only convenience with Czech CD, is that they sell tickets to and within Russia with 30% from standard East-West fare, so jiizdenka shows already fare with discount.
as Terespol-Naushki is cheaper than Naushki-Vladivistok - what exactly you meant by this?
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Direct-Orient
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2011, 11:12:21 pm »


Do BC and RZD publish MPT and MGPT fares somewhere?
Well, MGPT fares you can actually check on BC and RZD websites (and even purchase tickets), since both websites offer access to "Ekspress" system.

Yes, should have noticed this myself...

Interestingly, RZD website, english version, as last updated, now shows 2 different fares for journeys to North Korea via Khasan/Tumangan: North Korean and Russian sleeping-cars. Seems very recent.


It also seems that there are RZD sleeping-cars Novossibirsk-Beijing running via Naushki, on supposedly Chinese-fitted Train 003/004.


Quote
With MPT it is a bit more complicated, since neither BC or RZD publish there tariff tables. With RZD you can actually check real time MPT fares, but the service is available either for cashiers (thus you need to go to the ticket counter yourself and ask) or on paid website, thus no free online source.

Paid website, what do you exactly mean?

If MPT fares are not publically avialable while only a sample of MGPT fares is advertised, comparing fare options isn't gonna be that easy.


And no, there is no CityStar from Poland or Czech Republic to Russia or Belarus. CityStars to Russia available only from Slovakia, Serbia and Bulgaria. With PKP-RZD the only discounts are for groups >6 and children (more here http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=737)
The only convenience with Czech CD, is that they sell tickets to and within Russia with 30% from standard East-West fare, so jiizdenka shows already fare with discount.

A real pity then, as Sparpreis 25 is a bit too much rigid.

So, I can get 30% off the full fare Frankfurt (O) (Gr) - Naushki (Gr) f I buy such ticket from CD?

Is City-Star Slovakia-Russia also valid via Warsaw? or Shall I only travel via Chop (and then Bryansk) ?



And I actually meant Terespol-Naushki and Terespol-Vladivostok, sorry for this late-evening confusion ;-)
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tUt
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2011, 12:33:50 am »

Interestingly, RZD website, english version, as last updated, now shows 2 different fares for journeys to North Korea via Khasan/Tumangan: North Korean and Russian sleeping-cars. Seems very recent.
Not that recent, there are two Russian carriages running till Tumangan with "Rossiya" #1/2 train since Dec. 2010 (#25 and #26). Officially they are connected with domestic Korean train Tumangan-Pyongyang. Previously running carriages via China canceled.
Also, as far as we know, RZD closed sale of tickets for this new carriages for any domestic routes in Russia.
It also seems that there are RZD sleeping-cars Novossibirsk-Beijing running via Naushki, on supposedly Chinese-fitted Train 003/004.
Well, within RZD it is a usual practice when the train consists of carriages coming from different companies.
Paid website, what do you exactly mean?
Primarily meaning http://www.express-3.ru/ , as far as we know, it the only webresource actually showing real time international fares (including MPT). But in order to gain access, you need paid subscription ("Доступ к системе "АСУ Экспресс" в справочном режиме можно получить, оформив подписку на данную услугу"). But on Russian forums there are people with access to such info, so if you really interested we can point out whom to ask ;)
If MPT fares are not publically avialable while only a sample of MGPT fares is advertised, comparing fare options isn't gonna be that easy.
Actual tariff table definitely kept in secret with such organizations as RZD, BC etc. As far as we know, UZ is the only company which published MPT tables. But in case of comparing... well, you can always find exact real time fare for MGPT direct connections, while with MPT you only have access to potentially a bit out dates fare for direct trains (like Moscow-Bejing, Moscow-Ulan-Baator etc.).
So, I can get 30% off the full fare Frankfurt (O) (Gr) - Naushki (Gr) f I buy such ticket from CD?
Yep, Frankfurt (O) (Gr) - Naushki (Gr) cost 217.9 EUR
Is City-Star Slovakia-Russia also valid via Warsaw? or Shall I only travel via Chop (and then Bryansk) ?
Actually there are two CityStars ZSSK-RZD, one is via UZ and the other one via PKP-BC. But the later is almost twice as expensive (233 vs. 120 EUR). Plus most of foreign travelers tend to avoid Belarus, because of extra visa problems.
And I actually meant Terespol-Naushki and Terespol-Vladivostok
Well, in this case obviously Terespol-Naushki is cheaper than Terespol-Vladivostok, since till Naushki it is much shorter distance (6300+km vs. 9700+km)
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2011, 02:27:22 am »


Not that recent, there are two Russian carriages running till Tumangan with "Rossiya" #1/2 train since Dec. 2010 (#25 and #26). Officially they are connected with domestic Korean train Tumangan-Pyongyang. Previously running carriages via China canceled.

Meaning that one may now travel via Tumangan without restrictions? ;-)

Whats is weird is that RZD gives both fares quotes for Moscow-Pyongyang, rather than Moscow-Pyongyang (CCMI WL) and Moscow-Tumangan (RZD WL)

Quote
Also, as far as we know, RZD closed sale of tickets for this new carriages for any domestic routes in Russia.

Even if your ticket is to Kasan?

Quote
Primarily meaning http://www.express-3.ru/ , as far as we know, it the only webresource actually showing real time international fares (including MPT). But in order to gain access, you need paid subscription ("Доступ к системе "АСУ Экспресс" в справочном режиме можно получить, оформив подписку на данную услугу"). But on Russian forums there are people with access to such info, so if you really interested we can point out whom to ask ;)


Yes I could be interested, thanks ;-)

Quote
Yep, Frankfurt (O) (Gr) - Naushki (Gr) cost 217.9 EUR

Is is available on-line ?

Next question is: how much for Naushki (Gr) - Beijing, possibly with a stopover in Ulaan-Baatar...

A real pity that DB didn't take over DR membership of MGPT ;-)


Quote
Actually there are two CityStars ZSSK-RZD, one is via UZ and the other one via PKP-BC. But the later is almost twice as expensive (233 vs. 120 EUR). Plus most of foreign travelers tend to avoid Belarus, because of extra visa problems.

I see your point, but travelling via Slovakia and then the Ukraine isn't always satisfactory, especially if you leave in Northwest Europe. Getting to Zilina, not to mention Bratislava, is quite a detour, and the sleepers running via Brest seem better than those via Chop.
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