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Europe Trains Guide Forum  |  General discussion  |  Train fares and tariffs  |  Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
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Author Topic: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow  (Read 73970 times)
rasha
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« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2010, 08:41:01 pm »

Yes, my mistake, it was 45 UAH, not 40UAH. Well, now 1 EUR is 10 UAH, so it's 4,5 EUR.

Don't be sorry, you couldn't now that.
You said in some earlier post that member of your team bought Kiev-Budapest one way ticket + reservation 800 UAH, which also more than it should be, so there are obviously some hidden costs.

And also one thing that can help. We paid return ticket Budapest-Lviv 53 EUR (arrond 14 500 HUF), but the lady, who was in our compartment paid one way ticket Budapest-Lviv arround 10 000, and she also bought it in Budapest as we did. So it looks like it is not 50% reduction for one way ticket MAV-UZ. It's more like 25% or something similar.
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rasha
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« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2010, 02:38:09 pm »

I found out that from 1st September Moscow - Žilina through sleeping car is running all the way to Bratislava.  :)

Now I have a set of questions  ;D

What is the price for T3 reservation Kiev - Bratislava and Lviv - Bratislava for UZ coach on train 7KJ?
Which trains from Moscow to Lviv are with UZ T4 carriages, and how much reservation for them cost?
Is it possible to make reservation on Transsiberian route with CityStar ticket, for trains continuing to China, Mongolia or North Korea?

In a mail ŽSSK representative send me, he said that in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia if using CityStar ticket and breaking the trip, ticket has to be validated at that station up to 3 hours after schedule arrival. Is it true? And where it should be validated? At international ticket desk?

Thank you very much for your help!  :)
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tUt
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« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2010, 03:19:56 pm »

What is the price for T3 reservation Kiev - Bratislava and Lviv - Bratislava for UZ coach on train 7KJ?
We already discussed it - http://europetrainsguide.com/forum/index.php/topic,51.msg343.html#msg343
Which trains from Moscow to Lviv are with UZ T4 carriages
All the regular all year round trains from Lviv to Moscow (meant #74 Lviv-Moscow, #142 Chernivtsi-Moscow and direct carriage Truskavets-Moscow, runs with #116 train from Lviv) served by UZ, the only train served by RZD is #16 (also known as "Tisza").
During holidays and other peak dates RZD sometimes runs additional Moscow-Chop train #125/126, but it happens rarely.
Is it possible to make reservation on Transsiberian route with CityStar ticket, for trains continuing to China, Mongolia or North Korea?
Yes, but only till last Russian station. For instance, you buy CityStar Bratislava-Naushki, board carriage Bratislava-Moscow, arrive to Moscow, where you can easily purchase reservation for Ulan-Baator train, but only till Naushki (as last Russian station). If you want to continue further, then you'll need to buy additionally Naushki-Ulan-Baator ticket+reservation.

NB: If you plan trip to Mongolia/China/N.Korea (with or without stops in Russia), then you might consider MPT ticket instead of East-West CityStar. The reason behind it is that MPT tariff is still quite cheap since it haven't changes for a long time (even sleeper reservations), while reservations for domestic Russian journeys with CityStar were raised couple years ago and cost a fortune now, thus MPT might be actually a cheaper option.

In a mail ŽSSK representative send me, he said that in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia if using CityStar ticket and breaking the trip, ticket has to be validated at that station up to 3 hours after schedule arrival. Is it true? And where it should be validated? At international ticket desk?
Sounds strange, because if you'll use East-West tariff ticket it's not bounded with anything besides two month validity period, so no point at all to make any validations. Probably those guys in ZSSK mixed it up with UZ/RZD/BCh domestic tickets. Since in CIS countries ticket and reservation is issued together on one ticket sheet, thus "bounded", so if you want to break your journey, then sleeper reservation is official "vanished"(=passenger got off train), but ticket part is valid and can be used for other train, but here comes that validation. In order to continue the journey with such ticket, you need to show up to the administrator at the station, she officially stamps ticket as "break in journey" and only then it can be used later. The only thing you need is to purchase new sleeper reservation for the train you need.
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rasha
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« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2010, 04:05:06 pm »

Oh sorry, I just forgot I already asked that...

So, if I understand correctly reservations with Citystar are more expensive then those with MPT tariff? For example, if I buy MPT ticket Moscow - Beijing and brake my trip in Irkutsk,Ii will pay less for reservations then using Citystar till Naushki or Zabaikalsk and then MPT till Beijing? Even the reservation Moscow - Irkuts will be less?
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tUt
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« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2010, 04:52:04 pm »

reservations with Citystar are more expensive then those with MPT tariff?
Yes, Moscow-Irkutsk reservation T4 cost 155 euro, while MTP reservation T4 Moscow-Irkutsk cost only around 40 CHF for Chinese train #4. For Russian #6 it is already around 70 CHF since RZD has higher sleeper multiplier, but still it is far not 155 EUR.

On the contrary, CityStar is better as ticket itself, since you pay 134.4 euro and you free to go there and back, while MPT ticket is obviously more expensive on this matter. In order to illustrate, MPT ticket Moscow-Sukhe-Baator (first station in Mongolia) will cost around 210-220 CHF and it's only one way.

Resume: you need carefully to consider routing (whether one way or return), number of stops etc., only afterward it will be possible to say what is cheaper overall option MPT from Moscow or East-West from Slovakia till Russian border+MTP further on.
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rasha
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« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2010, 06:16:03 pm »

Well, first I planned to go to Vladivostok with stops in Moscow, Yekaterinburg and Irkutsk, since Serbian citizens don't need visa for Russia, but need return ticket for China to get Chineese visa, so it looks realy difficult to get Chinese visa here in Belgrade, without flying there. I'm still considering my options. Since I plan in it for next summer, I will wait and see maybe some prices change till then.
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« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2010, 10:10:10 pm »

need return ticket for China to get Chineese visa, so it looks realy difficult to get Chinese visa here in Belgrade, without flying there.
The problem is that the only place where you can potentially buy rail ticket to China is Moscow (maybe SPb as well) and other big stations on the way of Chinese trains, other confirmed place is Riga, maybe Tallinn, but it is not confirmed.
While Belarus and Ukraine being officially in MPT, but, as far as we know, nobody succeeded in buying ticket to China from there, so it difficult to be sure about those places of purchase.   
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« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2010, 11:01:55 pm »

Yes, that is a problem. There was some talk about ŽS connecting with RDŽ tariff system, probably as a part of Russian government 800 million $ credit for modernisation of railway infrastructure in Serbia. But probably, I'll have to wait few years for that...
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tUt
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« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2010, 04:44:18 pm »

I noticed you calculated 30% discount on East-West tariff, on the whole lenght of journey, but on your website it's stated that there is 30% discount only on RŽD part, and 50% on MA'V and UZ part. So, which one is true of these two?
It is 50% off on MAV and UZ, definitely. But I can't see the problem, earlier calculations are correct - Zahony(gr)-Zernovo(gr) one way full fare is 49.4 euro, but due to 50% discount same sum corresponds to the return fare, that is why we didn't multiply it by anything, same story with MAV part, while on RZD it's not 50% off, so we can't just take one way full fare (33.8 euro). We need to multiply it by 2 since we want return ticket and then adjust it according to the existing discount, thus roughly multiply by 0.7

It will be easier to understand if we will put it fully:  (31.4 euro*2*0.5) + (49.4 euro*2*0.5) + (33.8 euro*2*0.7)
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rasha
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« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2010, 06:56:20 pm »

It's stated that there is a 20% to 40% discount on East-West tariff for groups of 6 and more. How much is discount for Serbia - Russia tickets, or more correctly Belgrade - Moscow via MAV and UZ? And also, is it possible to use 25% RailPlus discount for ticket Belgrade - Moscow?
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« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2010, 09:37:03 pm »

How much is discount for Serbia - Russia tickets, or more correctly Belgrade - Moscow via MAV and UZ?
Since every participating railway sets there own discount, but not everybody publishes there tariff tables, thus it's a bit difficult to find out exact percentage on every railway. In the case of RZD-ZS via UZ, MAV we have access only to percentage of UZ and MAV give, couldn't find anything about precise percentage for RZD or ZS.
But the good thing is that RZD published both fares - individual and group. For Moscow-Belgrade they have 113.9 euro for individual and 95.2 euro for group passengers (both are 2nd class and already including seat reservation, which can be easily deducted). As you can already guess, from here you can get a general idea of what to expect.
And also, is it possible to use 25% RailPlus discount for ticket Belgrade - Moscow?
As far as we know, only UZ (along with LG and LDZ) participates in RailPlus from "East-West" tariff countries, so no RailPlus discount for connections till RZD.
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« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2010, 05:57:22 pm »

I found a post No.3 in this topic on Thorntree forum (http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1567084). It's about combining CityStar ticket with MPT sleeper reservations. It looks rather complicated but not impossible to do so, as explained in this post:

Quote
The ticket should be bought best from Wasteels in Bratislava, in my opinion the railway station office is not as good.
Reason: Wasteels issues hand-written tickets and will have no problem with border points like Naushki(GR), Mandschuria(GR), Tumangan(GR).
However, the border points are not in the Slovak ticket computer, only Naushki (as station), Zabaikalsk (as station) and no Tumangan.
They can issue to border-points as well, it just takes 24 hours and a lot of red tape.

In my opinion legally - looking at SMPS legal guide book - the CITY-STAR tickets to borderpoints are LEGALLY more beneficial even as from price point of view it's the same.

Besides, the large white envelops Wasteels office would write you look more cool than boring pieces of cardboard or the railway :)

The Wasteels in Bratislava is at the railway station, it's just a different office. The price is the same 172 Euro for the round-trip, they accept credit cards.

I did not buy tickets from Wasteels in Bratislava, I bought from a small rural railway office in Sturovo (was closer to my house in Hungary and I was lazy), I got them within 5 minutes and paid with c/c.
_____________________

The tickets issued to borderpoints rather than to stations can save you money and some trouble. Why? Because you can save precisely on the sleeping car supplements. The CIV tickets issued till borderpoints point behind the last station of Vostok-Zapad tariff are the argument the traveler can argue and expect to pay sleeper supplements according MPT/EMPT tariff of SMPS, not the significantly more expensive Vostok-Zapad/TCV. According SMPS "Tariff Handbuch" ("Тарифное руководство") the traveler has to get the bed reservation according the tariff of his goal. Now, let's take the "goal" called Naushki. With a CITY-STAR "Bratislava-Naushki" some Russian ticket agencies will argue, the "goal" of the passenger is to reach the station of Naushki, settle there, get roots, marry a girl or so :) Because the station of Naushki is just a station: you can de-train there and so on. One agency in Moscow, the TSI will issue supplemental MPT tickets to CIV tickets and MPT bed supplement will be issued for the through tariff, but some are reluctant.

The situation will immediately change if you have a CITY-STAR to Naushki(GR) instead of Naushki. There is no physical station called "Naushki(GR)", that is the tariff break-point between РЖД (Russian Rail) and МТЗ (Mongolian Rail), it's a singularity, a single point on the rails which is the same as the border. The station of Naushki is in the tariff a different thing that Naushki(GR): Naushki(GR) is 6 km further from Moscow than Naushki.

At the moment you have the ticket to Naushki(GR) immediately you can argue with right: your goal is somewhere in Mongolia or behind, the Naushki(GR) indicated in your ticket is a point closed to passenger de-raining, you have to stay on the train. That puts you in entirely different legal position, you can demand all your bed reservations even within Russia to be issued according MPT tariff, not the more expensive "Vostok-Zapad".

This is probably what happened with Utti precisely last year. Utti bought the CITY-STAR ticket to Ussuriisk and had supplemental tickets from Ussuriisk to Tumangan (Korea) with single through reservation from Moscow till Tumangan in NKorean sleeping car. That was fine. As he de-trained in Russia earlier, he was surprised he got all his further reservations even ones going back to Moscow according MPT tariff, not Vostok-Zapad and saved quite a bit of money.
Indeed: the Russian ticket agency took his pre-existing CITY-STAR together with his pre-existing supplemental ticket to North Korea as one whole thing and as a proof, his "goal" was Korea. Hence - correctly - they sold him the Irkutsk-Moscow bed reservation as MPT, not "Vostok-Zapad"/TCV.

Sorry for this long rambling... anyway, to summarise: everyone should buy CITY-STAR tickets till "GR" points if possible. On the Far East there are three "GR" points in the tariff of "Vostok-Zapad"/TCV. These are: Naushki(GR), Mandschuria(GR), Tumangan(GR), precisely in that spelling. Don't ask me, why "Наушки" got English spelling and Man Zhou Li got German or why they use Mandschuria(GR) instead of Zabaikalsk(GR) which would be the same. That's how it is there in the book... :-/

Why would like one to get MPT instead of "Vostok-Zapad" bed supplement?

While RZD did raise the prices of Vostok-Zapad and also multipliers for MPT many times, this was not the case with МТЗ, ЗЧ, КЖД. Hence, using CITY-STAR combined with cheap MPT sleeper supplement of МТЗ, ЗЧ, КЖД, УЗ (УЗ did not change the multiplier either!) you still can get the best of both worlds. It is just more tricky.

What I would like to do is to get a CityStar ticket from Bratislava to Naushki or Naushki(Gr) , and combine it with return ticket Naushki or Naushki (Gr) - Beijing and MPT reservations Moscow - Beijing, Beijing - Irkutsk and Irkutsk - Moscow, all MPT ticket and reservations bought in Moscow. Do you maybe have any information about mentioned TSI agency in Moscow? And also information about prices of return ticket Naushki - Beijing or Naushki (Gr) - Beijing (I presume that 20% discount for Russia - China tickets isn't valid for ticket from Naushki (Gr)?), and information for prices of MPT sleeper reservations above.


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« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2010, 10:04:27 pm »

What I would like to do is to get a CityStar ticket from Bratislava to Naushki or Naushki(Gr) , and combine it with return ticket Naushki or Naushki (Gr) - Beijing and MPT reservations Moscow - Beijing, Beijing - Irkutsk and Irkutsk - Moscow, all MPT ticket and reservations bought in Moscow. 
Issuing of MPT sleepers for East-West ticket (=CityStar) is basically forbidden, because tariff and reservation must be issued using one tariff. The trick with (gr) or things like tickets East-West Mosco-Naushki + MPT Naushki-Suhe-Baator with one reservation Moscow-Suhe-Baator doesn't work. Gyuri_FT (or LXL2 on Thorn) was trying to promote this idea, but some time ago on MZA forum one of the RZD cashiers precisely explained that ticket counters in Russia wouldn't do such trick, unless accidentally mixing up tariffs or not being attentive enough.
Do you maybe have any information about mentioned TSI agency in Moscow?
http://www.timetable.tsi.ru/  Not quite sure how updated are the English part of the website, but you can try using Russian or email them.
And also information about prices of return ticket Naushki - Beijing or Naushki (Gr) - Beijing (I presume that 20% discount for Russia - China tickets isn't valid for ticket from Naushki (Gr)?), and information for prices of MPT sleeper reservations above.
You will definitely not get discount for Naushki(gr). Coming to exact MPT fares, it is tricky since we aren't in possession of all the current multipliers, so the approximation is rough and based on known info:  ticket Naushki-Beijing (app. 90 CHF), sleeper Irkutsk-Beijing (app. 25 CHF), sleeper Moscow-Irkutsk (most expensive is RZD carriages (app. 95 CHF), Chinese or Mongolian are cheaper), Moscow-Beijing should be around 50 CHF.

Anyway, it might be an option just to avoid CityStar at all, especially considering almost certain impossibility to buy MPT reservation to it. So you might just go to Moscow, purchase MPT Moscow-Beijing r/t and that will do it. Also remember about 50% RZD domestic upper berth in "kupe" discount.

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rasha
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« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2010, 07:43:51 pm »

Thank you!  :)

I found on this page (http://www.mza.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97:2009-05-04-16-19-19&catid=28:external&Itemid=115), that there is CityStar (or in Russia caled экономные цены) from Russia to Serbia via Chop. I knew there is only CityStar from Serbia to Russia available via Romania or Bulgaria and Romania, not via Chop. Is this a mistake or it is something new?
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« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2010, 08:30:39 pm »

there is CityStar (or in Russia caled экономные цены) from Russia to Serbia via Chop. I knew there is only CityStar from Serbia to Russia available via Romania or Bulgaria and Romania, not via Chop. Is this a mistake or it is something new?
It seems that nothing has changed (RZD website confirms - http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=737) and MZA just mixed up a bit. "Экономные цены" (or CityStar) issued only via Romania/Bulgaria, via Chop it is return discount in connection RZD-ZS. Why MZA tried to put it under "Экономные цены" and together with "и Черногорией (транзитом через Украину, Румынию и Болгарию)"... remains a mystery. Maybe they just accidentally added "via Chop" in a wrong place
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