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Europe Trains Guide Forum  |  General discussion  |  Train fares and tariffs  |  Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
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Author Topic: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow  (Read 72912 times)
rasha
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« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2010, 07:07:33 pm »

http://www.uic.org/IMG/pdf/rzd_2011_information_from_12_12_10.pdf

I found here that there is going to be a direct sleeping car Irkutsk - Warszawa in summer 2011. Do you have any information about how much will be the reservation cost for this car? And, are there going to be some changes in price from the timetable change on December 12th of CityStar ticket Slovakia - Russia (both via UŽ and PKP-BČ), and in sleeper reservations including ŽSSK-UŽ, ŽSSK-UŽ-RŽD, PKP-BČ-RŽD, UŽ-RŽD and RŽD domestic?
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tUt
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« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2010, 02:38:52 pm »

Do you have any information about how much will be the reservation cost for this car?
We are afraid that at the moment the only thing left is to rely on this year fares info (http://infokolej.pl/printview.php?t=10676&start=0&sid=c0df9306646ed251b00b3a9d47efd5a8), since it's too early to say something about next summer.
And, are there going to be some changes in price from the timetable change on December 12th of CityStar ticket Slovakia - Russia (both via UŽ and PKP-BČ), and in sleeper reservations including ŽSSK-UŽ, ŽSSK-UŽ-RŽD, PKP-BČ-RŽD, UŽ-RŽD and RŽD domestic?
At the moment the only definite thing is that reservations UZ-Europe with East-West tariff stay the same for next year on all the routes excluding UZ-PKP and UZ-DB. Probably similar thing will happen with reservations RZD-Europe, since there were already a number of responses about purchased tickets for dates after 12/12 and no difference in fares spotted, but this info is not confirmed by any RZD docs.
With UŽ-RŽD things are more complicated, because UZ plans to introduce new tariff system for "East-West", if, as we already noted, with ordinary UZ-Europe everything left with almost no changes (besides UZ-PKP and UZ-DB), but with UZ domestic (with East-West) and UZ-other CIS countries (like RZD) nothing is know yet, since those parts are missing (yet?) in the new tariff project. With UZ domestic (with East-West) there are rumors that reservations will be simply issued with a help of standard domestic UZ tariff, while situation with UZ-CIS is unknown yet. Same story with RŽD domestic (with East-West), but, imho, those are already way too expensive, so it will be suicide to raise them again. As well, no info about CityStar yet.
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rasha
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« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2010, 03:29:08 pm »

I meantime I found this:
http://forum.railwayclub.info/index.php?topic=21255.msg229149#msg229149
It says that domestic UZ reservation for East-West tariff will be same as for domestic tickets (why RZD is not like UZ ? >:(). But it's not clear what will be with reservations from Ukraine to Russia, and other former USSR states. It also says that CityStar to Slovakia will be 30% cheaper! (hm, only from Ukraine, or also for Russia?).

When you get some new information, please post it here. Thank you!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 03:31:30 pm by rasha » Logged
tUt
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« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2010, 04:09:34 pm »

It says that domestic UZ reservation for East-West tariff will be same as for domestic tickets (why RZD is not like UZ ? >:().
Well, we already seen this new project, but it is not yet definite. First of all this new project needs to be approved + even within link you gave it is stated, that formulations in different parts of it are a bit contrary and not clear, so you never know what will be the end result after all.
It also says that CityStar to Slovakia will be 30% cheaper! (hm, only from Ukraine, or also for Russia?)
ZSSK-UZ and ZSSK-RZD aren't codependent, so -30% in ZSSK-UZ doesn't mean yet similar thing with RZD.
When you get some new information, please post it here.
We will try  ;)
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« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2010, 01:23:34 pm »

Recently I looked on this map (http://www.parovoz.com/maps/supermap/supermap.png), and noticed that Petropavlovsk (Kazakhstan) and the whole route from Cheliabinsk to Omsk via Petropavlovsk belongs to South-Ural railway, which is part of RŽD. After that I had a look on Jizdenka, and Petropavlovsk is shown as Petropavlovsk [27] and Petropavlovsk [20], so it means that station belongs to both RŽD and KTŽ, something like Salzburg to DB and OeBB. Also, on Jizdenka, direct route between Cheliabinsk and Omsk which goes via Petropavlovsk is shown as Russian, so I thought that ŽSSK can issue ticket via that route. The only problem was that route from Topoli (Gr) to Ufa via Penza on which Kiev - Vladivostok and Dnipropetrovsk - Vladisvostok cars go isn't shown neither on jizdenka or wasteels.ro sites. It only showes routes from Topoli (Gr) to Ufa via Saratov. Next I did, I sent an e-mail to ŽSSK, and they answered that route Topoli (Gr) - Penza - Samara - Ufa - Cheliabinsk - Petropavlovsk - Omsk is possible for City Star ticket. So it means ŽSSK has it in their computer (or tariff book).

And I asked on MŽA forum about price of Kiev - Vladivostok T4 reservation - it's 70,83 CHF + VAT if bought in Ukraine (20%). Because it's defined in CHF, not EUR it means that for UZ cars, it's same price for MPGT and Vostok-Zapad. Do you know maybe is the Kiev - Vladivostok car reservable from Europe? Is it in EPA reservation system? It should be train 350LJ, which is shown in Hafas.

Also, the price for City Star SK-RUS changed a little bit. Via Ukraine it's now cheaper, 84 EUR till 1500km in Russia, and 120 EUR up 1500km in Russia. Via Poland and Belarus it's more expensive - 197,2 EUR till 1500km in Russia and 233,2 EUR up 1500km in Russia.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 01:27:48 pm by rasha » Logged
tUt
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« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2010, 10:05:20 pm »

Petropavlovsk is shown as Petropavlovsk [27] and Petropavlovsk [20], so it means that station belongs to both RŽD and KTŽ, something like Salzburg to DB and OeBB.
Yes, basically transit line on that small part of northern Kazakhstan belongs to RZD, but, nevertheless, all the tickets bought there is payed in tenge and you'll have full scale border crossing, not 'green corridor'.
And I asked on MŽA forum about price of Kiev - Vladivostok T4 reservation - it's 70,83 CHF + VAT if bought in Ukraine (20%). Because it's defined in CHF, not EUR it means that for UZ cars, it's same price for MPGT and Vostok-Zapad.
No, this is a mistake. East-West tariff is in EUR. And according to UZ tariff table the numbers are correct, but the currency is EUR. So the person who advised you that just mixed up CHF with EUR.
It should be train 350LJ, which is shown in Hafas.
It should be in EPA, besides 350 Iv-F.-Kharkiv, 53OJ and 134JI are also seen in Hafas, so there are good chances that UZ gave the details about Kiev/Kharkiv-Vladivostok carriages as well.
Also, the price for City Star SK-RUS changed a little bit. Via Ukraine it's now cheaper, 84 EUR till 1500km in Russia, and 120 EUR up 1500km in Russia.
Good news, thanks for sharing it.
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« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2010, 11:36:33 pm »

Yes, basically transit line on that small part of northern Kazakhstan belongs to RZD, but, nevertheless, all the tickets bought there is payed in tenge and you'll have full scale border crossing, not 'green corridor'.
Yes, I know that it's full scale border crossing. But good news for me is that recently Kazakhstan and Serbia signed agreemen about visa free regime, and in few months it will go into effect. So no problems about that for me.
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rasha
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« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2011, 06:00:52 pm »

Hm, one weird thing I ran on: last January ZSSK told me in an e-mail that Citystar to Russia is valid 2 months, but now, they said it's only one month. It wouldn't be weird if just that, but according to this (http://doc.rzd.ru/isvp/public/doc?STRUCTURE_ID=389&layer_id=3368&refererLayerId=3339&id=3954#4810) ticket validity should be 2 months becouse Slovakiа signed that agreement.
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« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2011, 07:20:55 pm »

Hm, one weird thing I ran on: last January ZSSK told me in an e-mail that Citystar to Russia is valid 2 months, but now, they said it's only one month. It wouldn't be weird if just that, but according to this (http://doc.rzd.ru...) ticket validity should be 2 months becouse Slovakiа signed that agreement.
Well, first of all it's worth to mention that SMPS (in quoted RZD doc - СМПС) it is just convention designed long time ago for so called 'Easter Bloc' and China/Mogolia (organization OSShD/OSJD - Organization for Cooperation of Railways), it is similar to CIV for 'Western Bloc' (organization UIC - International Union of Railways). Tariffs are something secondary to this agreements. TCV, which is now SCIC-NRT, is general tariff for interstate CIV members connection, SMPS doesn't have a unified interstate tariff like SCIC-NRT, but has couple specific tariffs designed for specific purposes - like MPT or interstate tariff between former USSR countries.
While East-West tariff originally designed to connect CIV countries with SMPS countries, thus regulations concerning only SMPS, the ones you quoted above, does not apply here. The confusion might arise since some countries like Slovakia or Czech Republic are members of both, but still ticket ZSSK/CD-RZD will be issued not with help of any tariff 'outgoing' from SMPS convention, but with a help of East-West (actual agreement can be found here - http://www.oebb.at/static/tarife/scic-ewt__besondere_internationale_befoerderungsbedingungen_ost_-_west_/index.html).
As you can see, here (6.1.1) it is specifically stated that: "Die übrigen internationalen Beförderungsausweise gelten einen Monat", but "Für gewisse Tarifangebote, bestimmte Verbindungen oder bestimmte Vertriebskanäle können die BBT eine unterschiedliche Geltungsdauer vorsehen". As result of this last point, in reality some tickets issued with a help of East-West tariff might have different validity than 1 month. For instance CityStar ZSSK-RZD previous years or example from my experience - last time I traveled using East-West tariff ticket Budapest-Chop was valid for 2 month, but ticket Zahony-Chop for same MAV-UZ connection - only 4 days.
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