Europe Trains Guide Forum

General discussion => Train fares and tariffs => Topic started by: filu on June 21, 2011, 04:24:29 pm

Title: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on June 21, 2011, 04:24:29 pm
Hi,

I think there is one thing You're not really mentioning on this website :-)

Quite often, buying domestic border to border tickets is much more cheaper than the TCV tariff, even including discounts. For example, I'm planning a route for two people Poland-Czech-Slovakia-Hungary-Serbia, then return Bosnia-Croatia-hungary-Slovakia-Czech-Poland and no matter how do I calculate the ticket price, it's always cheaper to buy the domestic tickets. That's actually what I was always doing before knowing the TCV. You board an international train having a domestic ticket only (+ reservation for the whole journey if applicable) until the last station in the coutry or the border point if possible. Then, after crossing the border, reporting then buying the next ticket from the new ticket officer on board. Unfortunately that often requires having a local currency (but for example in Czech You can pay in Eur also) or payng an extra fee for buying the ticket in the train despite counter at the station (still again, some of the border stations do not have a ticket machine/counter). Internet ticket, if possible, helps here alot. Sometimes the train stops just after the border for so long (like eg overnight Warsaw-Budapest in Bohumin in Czech for 0h50) that we have a plenty of time to get it. Anyway, that still makes the journey far less expensive than the TCV. That allows us also to use all the posiible domestic discounts for age or group or pay adequately to the train rank (like in Poland where Regio trains are ca 5 times cheaper than the EC, and some of them run as far abroad as the faster ones, like Klodzko-Usti nad Orlici).

Of course that does not apply to any international (like spar or euro-special) tickets bought in advance, but still, often You don't need to buy anything in advance and You're really flexible in case of any change of plans or a train being late on roue.

Usually worked for me so i guess it's nice to know.

Have a nice day everyone :-)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on June 21, 2011, 11:21:52 pm
It is hard to disagree with you, the trick of 'breaking' tickets via border by purchasing domestic tickets till/from is an old as the world...
And in many cases of one way travel it is definitely the best option in terms of money savings, plus, as you mentioned, it allows you not to plan long ahead and be flexible. But there are still few shortcomings of such tricks: 1) if you obey the rules and purchase international cross-border ticket from last station of country A till first of country B, then the saving might simply be minimal since this short distance ticket will cost too much due to international tariff, thus effect the total sum. So if legs in country A and country B isn't that big, then 'breaking' ticket via border might not worth it; 2) not sure how is it now or how dependent it on the exact country, but it used to be a risky business purchasing domestic ticket on board on international train somewhere near the border. Conductors isn't that silly, so the they perfectly understand the trick with riding with no ticket across the border, thus you might get in trouble. Don't remember whether it was in Czech Republic or Slovakia, but we read reports stating that conductors were selling domestic ticket from the border only to those who could present ticket till first station of their country or at least gr. point, if you couldn't - penalty applied. 3) in many cases such trick requires getting off train (sometimes in the middle of the night etc.) or even waiting for the next one, thus many passengers just not willing to spend their time and effort for doing so. Now, when many train companies started to sell tickets online this became not that big of an obstacle, but still.

At the end let's just try to prove your point and make some calculations, just for fun. From your itinerary it makes sense to take not all the legs, but those where you potentially will travel there and back, thus taking advantage of "tasty" return discounts popular among Central European railway companies. So let's look at Bohumin-Breclav-Bratislava-Sturovo-Budapest part. This can be covered the cheapest by two return tickets - Bohumin-Bratislava (CityStar CD-ZSSK via Breclav for 2 passengers will cost 47.6 EUR, thus mathematically 23.8 EUR per person for Bohumin-Bratislava-Bohumin) and Bratislava-Budapest (16 EUR for return ticket). So in total we will have 39.8 EUR per person for chosen segment there and back. Now let's count domestic tickets trick: Bohumin-Breclav for 2 passengers with group discount bought online cost 352 CZK multiplied by 2 for return and divided by same 2 because of 2 passengers, makes it 352 CZK (app.14.5 EUR) per person for Bohumin-Breclav return. Kuty-Sturovo one way 8.9 per person, thus makes 17.8 per person for Kuty-Sturovo return. And the last leg is Szob-Budapest: 1280 HUF*2 makes it app. 9.5 EUR per person for Szob-Budapest return. What we have? 14.5+17.8+9.5=41.8 EUR and we didn't even added cross border tickets Breclav-Kuty return and Sturovo-Szob return. Hope we counted all the things correctly, but this is the result  :-\
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on June 23, 2011, 07:27:26 pm
Thanks !!

But then I have a few questions :-)

1. How did You calculate the prices? Seems like jizdenka.cz gives me different values... Despite putting 2 people and return discount ... Both for the Bohumin-Bratislava and Bratislava-Budapest connection :-(  City star gives an aditional disctount to the existing TCV one?

2. The tickets. Can I buy both of them at any larger station in Poland? I mean there is a direct train from Warsaw to Budapest which stops at Bohumin for 1h in the night but as I understand the City-Star ticket i need to get in advance, then the ticket Bratislava-Budapest I cannot buy in Bratislava as I don't have time to do that.

3. How are those TCV discounts applied? If in the international ticket office I ask for any international ticket they will have the discounted price already on the screen or I will I be exposed to mercy/knownledge of the person selling? :)

I'm affraid there is too much uncertainty with those combinations, but ...

Now as it seems like You may really know virtually everything about rail travelling, maybe You could advise me with my connection fully (which I wanted to do with domestic tickets only).

Two people, one >26 with bahncard+railplus, second <26. The "return" part is Katowice-Budapest.

Katowice                              23:49        D 407
Budapest-Keleti pu    arr   08:35                                  (via Czech/Slovakia)

Budapest-Keleti pu         10:05        D 343   
Subotica                      arr   13:52

Then for the return (within 2-3 weeks)...

Sarajevo        dep      06:55        IC 258       (via Croatia)
Budapest-Deli pu    arr        18:10   

Budapest-Keleti pu dep   19:55        EN 476       (again via Slovakia/Czech)
Katowice                   arr     04:25
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on June 23, 2011, 11:03:01 pm
How did You calculate the prices? Seems like jizdenka.cz gives me different values... Despite putting 2 people and return discount ... Both for the Bohumin-Bratislava and Bratislava-Budapest connection :-(  City star gives an aditional disctount to the existing TCV one?
First of all, jizdenka is Czech website, thus it's has nothing to do with ZSSK-MAV discounts and doesn't show them, so better to look for those fare on ZSSK/MAV website ;)
Regarding CityStar Brecalav-Bratislava: jizdenka actually has already fare for all types of CityStars, so you just need to select "CityStar" from the "Reduction" box and input two passengers. Classic CityStar is a group discount where first passengers pays full fare, while others pay only 50%, but in some cases (like here) second, third etc. passengers actually pay a bit more than 50%, but still it is good way to save on international tickets for families or just groups of travelers.
Can I buy both of them at any larger station in Poland?
You mean Bohumin-Bratislava and Bratislava-Budapest? If so, then you can, but better not to do it, because you won't get any discounts. Those are applied only if you purchase it in participating countries.
... is a direct train from Warsaw to Budapest which stops at Bohumin for 1h in the night but as I understand the City-Star ticket i need to get in advance, then the ticket Bratislava-Budapest I cannot buy in Bratislava as I don't have time to do that.
Yes, there are direct carriages Warsaw-Budapest (goes with mentioned train #407 till Breclav and then get reattached to EN 477 Berlin-Prague-Budapest). Stop in Bohumin is 55 min., so problem to visit ticket counter and purchase CityStar. And since you want to make it to Budapest till 10am, then you have few options:
a) purchase CityStar Bohumin-Sturovo (68.8 EUR for 2 passengers, CityStars CD-ZSSK are sold any time, so rule of "buying in advance" is not for this one) instead of the one till Bratislava. And also in Bohumin ticket Sturovo-Budapest (10 EUR per person one way), you will pay extra for this one, but then you will be able to travel all the way from Bohumin to Budapest without leaving you carriage. On the Way back you can do Budapest-Sturovo cheaper (6 EUR for direct one way ticket) since MAV-ZSSK discounts will apply.
b) --//-- about CityStar till Sturovo, but then a slight change for cheaper travel. Sturovo is located right across the Danube from Hungarian Esztergom, so you can just cross the bridge and catch domestic train Esztergom-Budapest (run like every hour or even more often). As result by getting off Warsaw-Budapest carriage in Sturovo at 7:15 and catching local bus from train station till the bridge you will have ok chance to catch 8:09 train Esztergom-Budapest (arr.9:39). The only inconvenience is that arrival is to Nyugati, thus will need to spend some time getting to Keleti. Risky enterprise, but even if you miss you 10am to Serbia, then you always can catch 'Avala' at 13pm.

Totally different trick is to get off in Bratislava, enjoy the city for a bit and catch "Avala" there with ticket Bratislava-Budapest. "Avala" stops in Budapest for 30 min, so will have no problem to buy your Budapest-Serbia ticket during the stop. That's an option if you didn't have anything planned for Budapest, like a short walk for 2 hours or something.
How are those TCV discounts applied? If in the international ticket office I ask for any international ticket they will have the discounted price already on the screen or I will I be exposed to mercy/knownledge of the person selling?
In case of Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary rather simple international tickets like yours isn't a problem, cashiers issue such by dozens and by default all the needed discounts are already counted. So don't worry, nobody will try to sell it to you for full SCIC-NRT fare (unless you do such unwise thing as purchase ticket Bratislava-Budapest in Poland or something). But anyway better to have all the app. sums for planned tickets in head/on piece of paper, just in case if cashier will announce some insane number.
Now as it seems like You may really know virtually everything about rail travelling, maybe You could advise me with my connection fully (which I wanted to do with domestic tickets only).
Ok, so how we see it:
1) either buy Katowice-Bohumin return (15.2 EUR, valid one month, don't forget to mention that you need it via Zebr. and not Rybnik/Bohumin(gr)) or might try domestic KatowiceZebr. +over the border with no ticket.
2) get off train in Bohumin and visit ticket counter. Here you will need to make a choice (we described options above) what exactly to purchase.
3) in Budapest. Budapest-Subotica one way cost 13.4 EUR, while Budapest-Kelebia domestic 3080 HUF, thus seems no need to do a trick with domestic ticket unless you want to ride without one for Kelebia-Subotica segment.
Concerning RailPlus: you don't get any discounts for tickets which are already sold with discount (like CityStar), but you get get 25% on tickets like Sturovo-Budapest purchased in Bohumin etc., thus makes sense to present your RailPlus card when buying those.

Anything we didn't cover yet? Or any further questions?
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on June 24, 2011, 01:28:13 pm
Ok, Your advice seems great. I guess we'll do the a) variant. Anyway I'll have couple of questions (sorry as it's the first time I'm doing this thing:) )

1. How do You know the prices of tickets? For example City Star Bohumin Sturovo + Sturovo Budapest that I'm buying in Bohumin? I mean I would like to know where to get those prices so I can look for them on my own later on. Sorry, but "Your" prices I can't get while calculating TCV with jizdenka (where else?) and the official websites of railways do not often specify the international prices, except some main corridors (that's the reason I was always using border-border tickets for price clarity).



2. (can be ommited if not having time :) ) If possible, please give me some examples of price calculation  coz I would really like to become an expert in the matter and not bother You while going anywhere anytime :-)

2a.Like for example You say one way Subotica-Budapest is 13 eur, but jizdenka gives me 19 (60% discount applies only for return connection on this route right?).

2b.Again, Sturovo-Budapest is 10 eur one way bought in Bohumin, fine. But You say for the other way round (bought in Budapest) it's 6 eur. Why? On the website You say that the discount applies only for return tickets! (and in this case those are obviusly two one-way tickets)

2c.Citystar Bohumin-Budapest. How do You calculte the price? (I understand the second person pays 50% but how come You arrive at 68.8?)

With my way of calculating it almost always gets more expensive than border-border tickets :).



3. Seems like we'll slightly revert our plans and go first to Sarajevo then come back from Subotica (both trains direct). The Poland-Budapest stays fixed. Which tickets would You suggest us to buy for Budapest-Sarajevo then Subotica-Budapest (in this case standard ticket for 13eur as You mentioned?) one-way connections? Maybe we can somehow combine them with those for Poland-Budapest part?

Once again many thanks for all those efforts :-)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on June 24, 2011, 10:32:23 pm
How do You know the prices of tickets? For example City Star Bohumin Sturovo + Sturovo Budapest that I'm buying in Bohumin? I mean I would like to know where to get those prices so I can look for them on my own later on. Sorry, but "Your" prices I can't get while calculating TCV with jizdenka (where else?) and the official websites of railways do not often specify the international prices, except some main corridors (that's the reason I was always using border-border tickets for price clarity).
We will illustrate )))
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9721/citystarbohuminsturovo2.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/citystarbohuminsturovo2.png/)
As you can see, for 2 passengers via Kuty(gr) as Warsaw-Budapest carriages go via.
And since jizdenka is Czech website quoting fare you get when buying from CD ticket counter, then
(http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/9362/sturovobprailplus.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/862/sturovobprailplus.png/)
If you worry about buying such tickets in Bohumin, you can even print out this scans and show it to the cashier, so he/she will definitely understands what you want ;) 
2a.Like for example You say one way Subotica-Budapest is 13 eur, but jizdenka gives me 19 (60% discount applies only for return connection on this route right?).
Yes, MAV-ZS it's 60% off for return tickets, but it's also 30% off for one way ticket, thus exactly 19 EUR is full SCIC-NRT/TCV fare, but with 30% discount you get 13 EUR.
2b.Again, Sturovo-Budapest is 10 eur one way bought in Bohumin, fine. But You say for the other way round (bought in Budapest) it's 6 eur. Why? On the website You say that the discount applies only for return tickets! (and in this case those are obviusly two one-way tickets)
Your are right, MAV-ZSSK discount is only for return tickets, but nobody forbids you to purchase return Budapest-Sturovo-Budapest and get 60% off ;) Thus in case of any ZSSK-MAV connections, actually return ticket, no matter how illogical it might sound, is cheaper than one way because of this 60% off. If you need to travel only one way, then just don't use the return part of your tickets. But in this particular case, it is also special local cross-border fare apply.
BTW, we just remembered even better trick (so forget buying Budapest-Sturovo RT for 6 EUR), in Bohumin just purchase return ticket Sturovo-Budapest-Sturovo, it will cost only 14 EUR (or 12 EUR for <26) because of special Central-Eastern European Agreement (called "Mnohostranna dohoda" in Czech case), it gives 30% (or 40% for <26) on return ticket of participating members. In your case it will serve you the best. Here how it looks:
(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5263/sturovobprt.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/sturovobprt.png/)
3. Seems like we'll slightly revert our plans and go first to Sarajevo then come back from Subotica (both trains direct). The Poland-Budapest stays fixed. Which tickets would You suggest us to buy for Budapest-Sarajevo then Subotica-Budapest (in this case standard ticket for 13eur as You mentioned?) one-way connections? Maybe we can somehow combine them with those for Poland-Budapest part?
Hmm... going one way Budapest-Sarajevo cheaply by rail seem a bit more problematic, because there discounts are given only for return tickets, but since the distance is rather essential in total, then even with discount return ticket gets to cost 58 EUR, which quite a bit for South-Eastern Europe.
Another problem here is that there is basically no long stops in Croatia or BiH (besides border controls), where you can get off and buy ticket (domestic or international). Thus might be the RailPlus is the most visible way to save. Or you can always get off somewhere like Osijek, enjoy a town for a day (Budapest-Osijek ticket cost 24 EUR) and then get on the same Budapest-Sarajevo next day with one ticket bought in Croatia.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on June 27, 2011, 04:44:02 pm
Still about that Budapest-Sarajevo route ...

I think we can buy one czech inkarta for 10 eur per yer and it includes railplus then both of us will have railplus. ( budapest beli manastir is already 7 eur cheaper with railplus, and then there is this subotica budapest on our return connection ...)

I think I forgot to mention that we both have ISIC cards, so in principle we get 30% for both croatian and bosnian domestic tickets... Then the border-to -border option seems to be the cheapest option... Maybe for the Budapest-Beli manastir (or Osijek if we will have to stop there for a night due to missing the connection in Budapest) we will use TCV+railpus then continue on domestics. Or domestic Budapest-  Magyarboly then TCV+railplus to Beli manastir?? (2eur) then again domestic ...

Then Slavonski Samac-Samac (Croatian Bosnian border) is 1eur with railplus...

In principle we could buy all those "TCV-border" things ahead of time in Bohumin or even in Poland but I guess I'm running a bit too much into making things really complicated regarding small amounts I'd save by doing this.   :)))

After You said that sometimes they may make trouble due to 'illegal' border crossing I think it's nice to pay that little price to validate my presence in the train upon entering the new country... I just don't want to make cashiers furious by bloking the line buying many tickets for 1 eur each between destinations they've never heard about :)))
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on June 27, 2011, 10:57:46 pm
I think we can buy one czech inkarta for 10 eur per yer and it includes railplus then both of us will have railplus. ( budapest beli manastir is already 7 eur cheaper with railplus, and then there is this subotica budapest on our return connection ...)
How exactly do you count? Buying things like Budapest-Beli Manastir in Czech Republic?
Then the border-to -border option seems to be the cheapest option... Maybe for the Budapest-Beli manastir (or Osijek if we will have to stop there for a night due to missing the connection in Budapest) we will use TCV+railpus then continue on domestics. Or domestic Budapest-  Magyarboly then TCV+railplus to Beli manastir?? (2eur) then again domestic ...
But on many segments of its route IC #259 Drava is the only train per day, so how exactly you plan to purchase domestic tickets when you will be on board and train doesn't make long stops on the way (besides border checks)? On board from conductors?
Definitely Croatian and BiH domestic tariffs with discounts seem tempting, bu imho, maybe it will make sense to buy something like Beli Manastir-Sarajevo with RailPlus from CD and then in Hungary Budapest-Beli Manastir with RailPlus or Budapest-Magyarboly+cross border, thus you won't have any trouble purchasing anything on the road, but will have all tickets in hands when boarding "Drava" in Budapest. At least you might "weight" such option against possible 'nuances' of buying tickets "on the road" in former Yugoslavia ;)
I just don't want to make cashiers furious by bloking the line buying many tickets for 1 eur each between destinations they've never heard about :)))
When it's not about their country or the neighboring one, then we don't think they really gone care that much about tricks you plan to do somewhere in Croatia or BiH. Also do you really expect any line at 1am somewhere in Bohumin?
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on June 28, 2011, 11:13:37 am
Ok seems like (taking into account the railpluses and isics we will have), the following option is the best one:

1. Budapest - Samac TCV-railplus 29eur per person
2. Samac Sarajevo    Domestic-30% around 7eur + supplement for buing in the train (I expect it 7eur coz its similar distance as sarajevo tuzla, the zfbh doesnt really show samac sarajevo price)

Thats only up to 3 eur more than 'full domestic' variant (even excluding supplements for buying ticket in the train in B.Manastir) but 6 lessthan Budapest-Sarajevo wil TCV-railplus only (excluding supplement in samac) . The TCV for bosnian part seems to be a bit overpriced... (but I don't know the exact price, just estimate it because of Sarajevo-Tuzla)

In case of delay in budapest and missing DRAVA, then we'll do this stuff:

1. TCV+railplus for Budapest-Pec (intercity)-Beli manastir(putnicki)-Osijek(another putnicki)
2.Night in Osijek
3a. domestic till SL.samac + tcv-railplus for Sl.samac/samac (can they refuse to sell me that in Osijek?) + domestic samac/sarajevo
3b. (not a large price difference) tcv-railplus for Osijek/Samac then domestic till Sarajevo.

In the second case (delay in Budapest), we will arrive in Sarajevo earlier (however a day after of course) so we can also catch the train to Mostar, which is actually our destination. However obviously in the 1st case we sleep in Sarajevo then continue to Mostar with domestic ticket (that's why I didnt even ask about it  :) )


I guess that's the most optimal option for us :)

Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on June 29, 2011, 12:16:23 am
Generally your plan seems pretty logic, SCIC-NRT/TCV+ RailPlus will work for you even better than MAV-HZ return 60% discount. So good luck and wait on short report of how you managed all in practice ;)

...the zfbh doesnt really show samac sarajevo price
Probably because of the things between ŽFBH and ZRS, Samac is station belonging to the latter one, but ZRS website is under construction or something at the moment, but roughly full ticket Samac-Sarajevo should be around 20 BAM
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on July 04, 2011, 10:55:00 am
Hi again,

Seems that only one of us will get there by train, the other person will be there already before. So i guess the plan for one person is generally same, just except citystar breclav-sturovo I'm buying a regular return TCV ticket, right?

BTW. from the website "55% off Czech Republic - Slovakia connections" I guess it's return only, right?

Thanks :-)

Filip.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on July 04, 2011, 11:15:56 am
So i guess the plan for one person is generally same, just except citystar breclav-sturovo I'm buying a regular return TCV ticket, right?
Well, CityStars CD-ZSSK are sold for one person only as well, so regular RT ticket Bohumin-Sturovo (via Breclav-Kuty) cost 51.2 EUR, while CityStar 37.6 EUR. It is just that with 2 passengers you get even better offer, but for one person CityStar is also an option.
BTW. from the website "55% off Czech Republic - Slovakia connections" I guess it's return only, right?
Not only for RT ticket, you automatically get 55% off for Czech segment of any SCIC-NRT/TCV ticket CD-ZSSK (unless there is some other discount available (for instance CityStar), which will give you even more off)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on July 07, 2011, 03:24:12 pm
Ok once again change of plans sorry :)

A. It's only me who travels by train (no change here)
B. I will start my trip in Budapest (until that point my journey is already paid, rest I need to cover myself)
C. I will come back from Bar (Montenegro) to Wroclaw (Poland)

So that's what I need:

A.Budapest-Subotica
(then various local trips in Serbia and Montenegro)
B.Bar(Montenegro)-Wroclaw (Poland) within a month. (I'd avoid pre-booked offers due to uncertainty in exact return dates)

Here is wqhat I have:
A.Railplus
B.30% ISIC discount on local trains in Monteneg and Serbia
C.51% discount in Poland (ISIC)

So that's what I guess...

Correct me if I'm wrong :-)

1. Budapest Subotica bought in Budapest TCV-two-way with 60% reduction gives 15 eur two way right?
(now various local trips until I arrive in Bar...)
2. On Bar-Belgrade I'd like to stop couple of times (for Bilelo Polje - Uzice, I could easily buy TCV as those are two "closest to the border" stations where I will stip) so the best idea is to use local tickets + TCV for my cross-border (Bilelo Polje-Uzice) train?
3. Belgrade - Subotica local ticket (or better make it Bar-Subotica TCV?)
4. Subotica-Budapest already paid in point 1.
5. Budapest-Wroclaw one way? Any easier idea for not using "domestic" tickets? (can be thru Bohumin or Lichkov)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on July 07, 2011, 04:42:26 pm
Well, in your case we see a few options, so
Hungary-Serbia-Montenegro RT:
a) don't bother with numerous tickets, but just purchase Montenegro Spezial  Budapest-Bar-Budapest for 66 EUR from MAV. Can be bought any time, thus no need to purchase in advance. If you plan any trips outside of Bar-Belgrade railway, then just purchase local domestic ticket for the trip you want.
b) buy Budapest-Subotica return for 15,4 EUR, then if you plan rather a lot of trips within Serbia and Montenegro it might make sense to buy Balkan Flexi pass. Generally the price of it is rather cheap and totally makes it up if you don't have many travel days.
c) Budapest-Subotica return for 15,4 EUR, then if you plan to make a lot of rather short trips within many travel days (thus undermining Balkan pass use) go with point-to-point ZS domestic using your 30% ISIC discount. But count carefully the sum of tickets for all your legs  ;)
Don't know what exactly you mean by "various local trips until I arrive in Bar", but either Montenegro Spezial or Balkan pass at the end might beat it. Bar-Belgrade SCIC-NRT/TCV in this case cost 21 EUR, thus not that cheap. On the contrary, Uzice-Belgrade cost from 616 RSD to 640 RSD (app.6.3 EUR), while domestic leg fare for Montenegro depends on where exactly you'll start.
3. Belgrade - Subotica local ticket (or better make it Bar-Subotica TCV?)
Definitely domestic ticket with ISIC is much cheaper option (560 RSD - 30%)

5. Budapest-Wroclaw one way? Any easier idea for not using "domestic" tickets? (can be thru Bohumin or Lichkov)
If time of your arrival to Central Czech Republic permits, then we would probably recommend to go via Lichkov. Then you can just catch a train from Budapest to Brno, while from there easily get to Usti nad Orlici and further to Lichkov. While in terms of tickets, then usually would be easier to buy Budapest-Prague 19 EUR SparDay ticket (online in advance from MAV website) for 19 EUR, then just get off in Brno and continue towards Lichkov (full one way ticket 169 CZK). But since you prefer not to purchase anything in advance, then in order to make it cheap, we would go to Esztergom (1100 HUF), cross the bridge to Sturovo, purchase there international ticket till Brno (app. 16 EUR). Here 'break' via Kuty/Breclav doesn't really win a lot if to purchase short cross-border ticket, thus you might just go with ZSSK-CD tariff, it's not that bad.
51% discount in Poland (ISIC)
Hmm... as far as we know, discount with ISIC is granted only for the trains operated by PKP InterCity, but not PKP Przewozy Regionalne. And officially only for Polish students or students studying in Poland, so you you neither, then be ready not to get it ;)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on July 12, 2011, 11:32:54 am
Ok I did not make myself clear :-)

"Small trips" don't really include mainline trains but branch lines and buses (in fact much more buses than trains, so any "pass" will not pay off). In fact, between Subotica and Bar on my way "there", I'll use only the Novi Sad-Belgrade part by the mainline train, so I think we can forget the round-trip ticket too. I guess the "c" version You proposed is a good one for me. (except if I'm lucky and I still get the 19eur Budapest-Praha)

Ticket

I'm Polish, so 51% ISIC always works for me perfectly both in PKP-IC and PKP-PR :-)

However You're right. This ISIC discount in Poland (the same one as for normal Polish students), works only for Polish citizens studying abroad, thus I need to show 3 documents: ISIC card, student card of foreign university, and a document proving Polish nationality. BUT :-) So many times I was buying this ticket for my foreign friends (just visiting Poland) and really really rarely anyone wanted anything more than just the ISIC and it was ok. Sometimes they were just saying next time we should but the full fare (but still ok), and only twice (per dozen maybe) we had to pay the difference between the student and full fare plus the usual 1,5eur fee for the ticket bought in train (per group, not per person as in Czech). Ticket officers just seem not to know or care too often.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on July 12, 2011, 09:54:47 pm
...if I'm lucky and I still get the 19eur Budapest-Praha
Unless such tickets are sold out due to the limited number, you can purchase them at >3 days in advance online from MAV website. Thus you won't need to purchase it really in advance when you still not sure about your date, but try to do it like 5-4-3 days before departure, then you probably already will know the exact date and still have some chances to catch discounted 19 EUR ticket.
...so 51% ISIC always works for me perfectly both in PKP-IC and PKP-PR
Hmm... recently friend tried to buy PKP-PR ticket with ISIC discount, but didn't succeed. Cashier offered only to sell with discount for PKP-IC and noted that no discount is offered with ISIC for PKP-PR  :-\
So many times I was buying this ticket for my foreign friends (just visiting Poland) and really really rarely anyone wanted anything more than just the ISIC and it was ok.
Well, the main problem here is the knowledge of Polish on level enough to "trick" personnel and pretend to be student from Poland ;) Much easier if you have a polish person buying it for you, but if not, then you might get an issue.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on July 13, 2011, 01:05:47 am
Mhmm, strange...

In both cases (IC and PR), I was simply buying a student ticket, then showing the ISIC. In most cases talk wasn't really necessary (my French friends did it once on their own). But the truth is that the ISIC looks really similar to Polish student card, so maybe the personnel doesn't often waste time on checking details. (non-ISIC international student cards were usually automatically rejected)

By the way, any student discount on PKP is valid only until 25 years old. I'm 27 now, and only once someone checked the birth date on my ID. Illegal? Right, but saving 51% of the price while crossing large distances... After all, I've paid the difference (+1,5eur for any in-train ticket operation, except if there is no counter at the station) and said I just didn't know (which was actually true back then :-) )
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: Skolmi on August 05, 2011, 02:04:14 pm
Following up the topic I'd like to ask if anyone tried to buy border-to-border ticket for Kelebia-Subotica in Budapest-Beograd train?

I have OSShD ticked for Warsaw-Budapest-Kelebia stretch and simply no special offer is cheaper.
Due to the schedule stop in Subotica it should be no problem with buying Subotica-Beograd ticket there.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on August 05, 2011, 02:36:44 pm
Following up the topic I'd like to ask if anyone tried to buy border-to-border ticket for Kelebia-Subotica in Budapest-Beograd train?
As far as we know, you can't purchase such ticket on board of a train. But that is not that big of a problem, since a) you can always buy it in Budapest during change from Warsawa train to Beograd train (or during long stop of 'Avala', in case you choose to catch Beograd train somewhere in Czech Republic). Cashiers at Wasteels agency or international ticket counter without any problem will sell it to you; b) that is not very correct thing to advise, but MAV conductors in any case will get off all the trains in Kelebia, while ZS officials will board it only in Subotica and check tickets already after departure, thus on segment Kelebia-Subotica there would simply be no one to check your ticket ;)
Due to the schedule stop in Subotica it should be no problem with buying Subotica-Beograd ticket there.
Hmm... but you need to account border control and customs. Those relatively long stops are kind of designed for that purpose, so if checks will be longer than usual you might not be able to visit ticket counter in Subotica. Plus trains towards Serbia often tend be a bit late, for instance today Avala is 20 min. late on arrival to Kelebia.
I have OSShD ticked for Warsaw-Budapest-Kelebia stretch and simply no special offer is cheaper.
Just for the sake of interest, maybe you can share the exact numbers of the ticket fare?
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: Skolmi on August 05, 2011, 03:54:13 pm
OK. So I will buy Kelebia-Subotica ticket or consider the latter advice
and also try to do so with Subotica-Beograd ticket at international counter in Budapest.

I just thought the stop in Subotica is a technical (not for border control) one.

What do you mean in "OSShD ticket fare"?
It is free of charge ticket under conditions of OSShD.



PS. Sorry but I can not deal with selective quotations tags.
PS. 2 Basically I go to Tirana via Bar so it seems to have this Forum useful :)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on August 05, 2011, 05:08:42 pm
So I will buy Kelebia-Subotica ticket or consider the latter advice and also try to do so with Subotica-Beograd ticket at international counter in Budapest.
Well, there is no point at all buying two separate tickets Kelebia-Subotica and then Subotica-Beograd in Budapest. Cheaper will be just purchase Kelebia-Beograd (there is 30% off SCIC-NRT for one way tickets MAV-ZS, so it will cost you app. 14 EUR). But still that is already extreme measure.
ZS used to sell tickets online, but now this system seems not working, at list if entering from the link on ZS website. Also, if we recall correctly, you can buy domestic tickets from conductors (so you can just purchase dinars in advance in Budapest and not deboard train in Subotica or spend a fortune on Kelebia-Beograd international ticket), but better recheck by emailing ZS directly. At least we have this picture of somebody buying tickets on board stuck in the head.
I just thought the stop in Subotica is a technical (not for border control) one.
Serbia is yet rather far from Schengen zone, thus there are still all the border procedures, maybe not that bad as they used to be, but still. Last time we were there, train just stopped like 1km from the station, Serbian officials entered and did their job, and only then we arrived to the actual station platform.
What do you mean in "OSShD ticket fare"? It is free of charge ticket under conditions of OSShD.
Aha... we just were a bit confused, since OSShD it is organization, which itself deals with many issues, so we thought you just mentioned it since both Poland and Hungary are members etc., for us just phrase 'OSShD' didn't click anything in concern with actual tariff, thus we thought you just had standard SCIC-NRT ticket issued for route between OSShD member railways.
Basically I go to Tirana via Bar so it seems to have this Forum useful :)
We are always glad to help (if we can), especially with such interesting route. Domestic trains in Albania, imho, is one of the most exotic rail experience you can get in Europe  ;)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on August 12, 2011, 06:05:47 pm
We've just come back from "Around Serbia and Montenegro" holiday. Main route to get there was Wroclaw-Pardubice-Budapest-Subotica two-way.

Tickets -  we managed to get the Prague-Budapest Sparscheine (19 eur one way) and Pardubice-Wroclaw we did on local tickets: (all prices one way per person: 51% Regio -  Polish student discount Wroclaw-miedzylesie (2.5eur) + Cross border (1eur) + Group ticket for 2 Lichkov-Pardubice (2.5 eur)  +  Budapest-Subotica we did on TCV return 60% off. (15eur per person return). ZS/ZCG local tickets only (Serbia/Montenegro borders we're crossed hitchhiking both ways). I believe that was the best deal.

Just some remarks:

1. ISIC student card DOES NOT give any discount anymore both on ZS znd ZCG. This is replaced with new cards, available only for Serbian/Montenegrin students. (confirmed by various offcials and rulebooks)

2. Except trains departing from their starting point, All the trains (ZS/ZCG) except one were late. Extreme cases were Beograd-Bar, which we wanted to take in Mojkowac - 5h. Zvecan-Kraljevo - 4h, as around 11pm the diesel broke in the woods of Ibar Valley and we arrived in Kraljevo around 3am (another loco came long way to haul us).

3. Some trains from online timetables which we had printed both for ZS and ZCG were rescheudled or cancelled and they were only corrected by handwriting or stickers at the stations but not online :-( On ZS website they are now correct, but still not on the ZCG Bijelo Polje - Bar full line timetable.

3. In Serbia, when buying tickets on board , in all cases except one, the inspectors did not sell any form of ticket, just charged 50-75% of the ticket price. No such case occured at ZCG.

4. That beograd-Bar railway is beautiful, everyone knows. I can absolutely recommend the aforementioned Ibar Valley on the Kraljevo-Zvecan branch. Trains are slow so there's a lot of time to watch :-)

After all,those timetable/punctuality related problems did not really affected our trip, and we're still in love of train travelling :)

Thanks for any help :-)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: Skolmi on September 15, 2011, 09:21:54 am
Just come back and a few remarks:

that is not very correct thing to advise, but MAV conductors in any case will get off all the trains in Kelebia, while ZS officials will board it only in Subotica and check tickets already after departure, thus on segment Kelebia-Subotica there would simply be no one to check your ticket ;)

Tickets was checked both ways by Hungarian inspectors (they get off/enter the train in Subotica).

Cross-border ticket Kelebia-Subotica bought in Warsaw was EUR 2.
We have a very serious problem with Hungarian inspector in Ivo Andric train:
first - claimed OSShD ticket as unvalid (passed after couple of calls to his "supervisor")
second - claimed cross-border ticket as unvalid (he repeated magically "one train - one ticket").

Basically Hungarian inspectors seem to undersand English only when they claim they are right.
What you give serious reasons for your right they suddenly start not to understand any foreign language.

Eventually for return journey we bought Budapest Special for EUR 15 to have a rest.

To have the best views off-season on Belgrade-Bar-Belgrade I do recommend to get night train from Beograd or/and day train from Bar. They cross the most scenic section during the day.

Albanian trains are to some extent much more better than Serbian and Hungarian ones :) .
But this in another topic quite later.

------------
One more think - we bought Subotica-Beograd ticket from the Serbian inspector for ~ 850 dinars
(whith a receipt) when according to ZS website it should be 480 dinars. Do you thing it was some
on-board surcharge or we were simply cheated?
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on September 16, 2011, 12:45:13 pm
Tickets was checked both ways by Hungarian inspectors (they get off/enter the train in Subotica).
Hmm... sorry we mislead earlier about it. Last time we were there MAV conductors get off/boarded in Kelebia. 
We have a very serious problem with Hungarian inspector in Ivo Andric train
Well, Hungarian conductors are known for behaving in such way, including language skills etc. And phrase "one train - one ticket" also very well reminds us those days when MAV tried to fight tricks with 'breaking' tickets via border stations. 
Imho, good chance that conductors just wanted some money (basically a bribe) from you, so that they will leave you alone. Foreign tourists not speaking Hungarian are exactly the type of passengers they try to play such games with.
... we bought Subotica-Beograd ticket from the Serbian inspector for ~ 850 dinars (whith a receipt) when according to ZS website it should be 480 dinars. Do you thing it was some
on-board surcharge or we were simply cheated?
Was the receipt printed or written by hand? The thing is that 560 RSD (480 RSD listed on ZS website is an outdated fare) it's basic fare (for the slowest category of trains - "Puntnicki"), for international train on domestic routes ZS charges special surcharge (either 100 or 200 RSD depending on whether train considered as "Express" or "InterCity"), so you need to add this surcharge to 560 RSD, while the rest is probably the extra charge for buying on board.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: rasha on September 20, 2011, 01:16:09 am
Yes, the price ŽS conductor sold you is right. Basic price Subotica - Beograd costs 560 din + fast train surcharge 100 din + 30% surcharge for issuing ticket onboard = 858 din.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on December 11, 2011, 06:09:53 pm
Ok, I'd like to kinda come back to my former question in this subject, as we're heading to Bosnia again, but this time we get there a bit different way... (We don't know the exact date so unfortunately I don't rely on any SPAR offers).

My girlfriend (<26, without railplus) starts in Gdansk in the morning and gets with Polish TLK to Bohumin via Warsaw and Katowice (she's <26 Polish student so she pays only around 10 eur to the Czech border + TCV Zebrzydowice(Gr)- Bohumin for 1,80... Analogically on the way back.

Me (>26, with railplus) travelling from Strasbourg (!!) meeting her in Poland (most probably Katowice as I want to stop for a moment in Wroclaw). Timetables related to Quer-Durch-Land or Shoenes Wochenende ticket are not good for me (I want to board her train in Katowice at 0:00 and I don't want to take another day off from work in Strasbourg). Thus, unfortunately, with no days fixed enough to get nice sparpreis, I'm thinking about buying INTERRAIL GLOBAL (I can buy it as a French resident, and I live just at the border) 5/10 days, 270 eur.

Return trip technically the same route.

Then starting from Bohumin, I guess we'll buy these tickets for her:

In Bohumin:
Bohumin Sturovo (TCV two-way) ca 46 eur
Sturovo Budapest (Mnohostranna -26) ca 12 eur

In Budapest:
Budapest Sarajevo* (TCV two way with large discount) ca 53* eur

*We're planning to stay for couple of days in Mostar, not in Sarajevo, and get to Ploce just for one day just to see our colleague and the sea (arr at noon, dep in the evening). So in fact it's Budapest-Sarejevo(1night)-Ploce(5h)-Mostar(longer)-Budapest) Should we buy our tickets from Budapest only to Sarajevo or directly to Mostar or Ploce or break them somewhere? Will it be cheaper? Are the breaks allowed in this case?

Please correct me if I'm wrong or it's not the best way, what I've described above :)

Thanks in advance and have a very nice day :-)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on December 12, 2011, 12:55:04 am
...TCV Zebrzydowice(Gr)- Bohumin for 1,80
1.8 EUR it's fare with 50% discount, while full fare (which you'll pay in case of purchase in Poland) is 3.6 EUR
...I'm thinking about buying INTERRAIL GLOBAL (I can buy it as a French resident, and I live just at the border) 5/10 days, 270 eur.
Well, in case you plan to come back to Strasbourg afterward, then obviously Interrail seems to be reasonable option, since just full fare one way Kehl-Wroclav itself cost roughly >150 EUR
Other partially reasonable option is just to wait until you know the exact date (guess it will happen at least a week or so in advance) and then just count on some offers (rail/low-cost flights) left for needed connection. Obviously it's risky and you need to be very lucky to get something good, but, hey, you can always go to the station and buy your pass if it doesn't work out.
Bohumin Sturovo (TCV two-way) ca 46 eur
Purchase CityStar CD-ZSSK here, it is sold for one passenger and cost only 40 EUR
Sturovo Budapest (Mnohostranna -26) ca 12 eur
Kind of forced choice in cases when you can't hop off somewhere in Slovakia and buy it there.
Should we buy our tickets from Budapest only to Sarajevo or directly to Mostar or Ploce or break them somewhere? Will it be cheaper? Are the breaks allowed in this case?
Yes, 'breaks' allowed, but it doesn't really makes sense to buy the ticket further than Sarajevo since domestic tariff will be cheaper than SCIC-NRT (even counting 20/25% discount you get for BiH segment). If ZFBH website doesn't lie much, then one-way Sarajevo-Mostar cost 9.9 BAM (return is 20% off, but it's valid for 2 days in case of <400 km journey), while difference between Slav.Samac(gr)-Sarajevo r/t and Slav.Samac(gr)-Mostar r/t is 19 EUR in case of SCIC-NRT (or around 16 EUR with mentioned discount).
While with segments Sarajevo-Mostar-Ploce you just need to count. Straight forward Sarajevo-Ploce r/t should cost around 23 EUR (which is full SCIC-NRT fare 29.6 EUR - 20% discount for HZ-ZFBH connections), while domestic Sarajevo to the border (Capljina) should be around 12-13 BAM one-way + something like 5.5 EUR for Capljina-Ploce r/t
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on December 12, 2011, 08:41:02 am
First question:

Quote from: filu on December 11, 2011, 06:09:53 pm
Sturovo Budapest (Mnohostranna -26) ca 12 eur
Kind of forced choice in cases when you can't hop off somewhere in Slovakia and buy it there.

---> Can't we buy this ticket also directly in Bohumin? Jizdenka cz gives this option... And it's You who suggested earlier in this topic to buy this ticket in Bohumin :-) Even the priintscreen is attached :-)

Second:

Quote from: filu on December 11, 2011, 06:09:53 pm
Bohumin Sturovo (TCV two-way) ca 46 eur
Purchase CityStar CD-ZSSK here, it is sold for one passenger and cost only 40 EUR

---> Jizdenka says CityStar for this connection (one person) is 34 eur :-) What is the real price then? :-)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on December 12, 2011, 02:15:18 pm
---> Can't we buy this ticket also directly in Bohumin? Jizdenka cz gives this option... And it's You who suggested earlier in this topic to buy this ticket in Bohumin :-) Even the priintscreen is attached :-)
Sorry, it seems there is a small misunderstanding. You definitely can purchase r/t Sturovo-Budapest ticket in Bohumin (or even in Poland) for 12.4 EUR. While by the phrase "forced choice..." we meant that such 12.4 EUR ticket is basically the only option in case you don't have time to get off train somewhere in Slovakia and get the same ticket for 6.5 EUR (according to discount for ZSSK-MAV connections and not multilateral agreement discount as with 12.4 EUR ticket)
---> Jizdenka says CityStar for this connection (one person) is 34 eur :-) What is the real price then? :-)
34 EUR it's the fare for the shortest route via Nemsova(gr), while via Breclav-Kuty(gr), route of the direct carriages Poland-Budapest, it is 40 EUR
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on December 12, 2011, 02:47:47 pm
It's clear now, thanks :-)

Quote
You definitely can purchase r/t Sturovo-Budapest ticket in Bohumin (or even in Poland) for 12.4 EUR.

Even the <26 version?

Can I also buy the Citystar Bohumin-Sturovo in Poland to avoid waking up in Bohumin at all?
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: jfk on December 12, 2011, 03:48:21 pm
If you are unboarding in Bohumin, why not go then via Cadca Gr. - Zilina - Trnava - Galanta - Sturovo - Budapest? I know, it's more time consuming but taht way  you have a chance to buy cheap return tickets between ZSSK and MAV.

Or do you just want to stick to EN Chopin/Metropol in order to catch the Sarajevo train in Budapest Deli? That can be quite risky as EN Metropol is usually not on time on arrival to Budapest.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on December 12, 2011, 06:49:46 pm
Even the <26 version?
Yep, at least in the agreement the category "mlodziez do lat 26 placi 40%" is present and we don't see any problem buying it in Poland (as far as cashiers know their job)
Can I also buy the Citystar Bohumin-Sturovo in Poland to avoid waking up in Bohumin at all?
No, CityStar CD-ZSSK is sold only in Czech Republic or Slovakia. In case you want to buy such ticket in Poland, they will just charge you standard SCIC-NRT*2 minus 40% (due to the above mentioned discount from "Wielostronnego porozumienia...")
If you are unboarding in Bohumin, why not go then via Cadca Gr. - Zilina - Trnava - Galanta - Sturovo - Budapest? I know, it's more time consuming but taht way  you have a chance to buy cheap return tickets between ZSSK and MAV
For "saving all the way" we shouldn't forget also about Cieszyn/Cesky Tesin trick, it might not be very convenient, but saves on cross-border ticket.
That can be quite risky as EN Metropol is usually not on time on arrival to Budapest.
True, today it was late for 14 min., while last week few times around 20+ min etc., but still hour and twenty min. seems enough in case of such minor delays, especially if you know your way around at Keleti and Deli. Timing for the ride Keleti-Deli is 11 min.+ another few min. for up/down + 2-5min. waiting time. The ticket is probably easier to purchae at Deli station, chances for a queue is less comparing to Keleti.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on December 14, 2011, 10:08:26 am
Hey, once again.

I've found great sparpreises so I'm thinking if that can be cheaper than interrail... However a bit risky :-)

Thus I will additionally need couple of one way tickets (one person, >26, railplus; my girlfriend most probably will have to stick to interrail anyway)...
As far as I can see the railplus card always gives me more discount than any local agreements...

Kehl-Zagreb [I've found 29 eur sparpreis (with bahncard)]

Zagreb - Sarajevo (-Ploce?) /direct night train/
--->Railplus seems to be best option. And again, extending ticket to Mostar or Ploce will make it cheaper?

Sarajevo-Ploce-Sarajevo (with longer stay in Mostar)
---> If ZFBH website doesn't lie, then ZFBH-HZ return discount pays off more than railplus, which is contrary to what jizdenka says... But it's still all about around one euro. Breaking this ticket in Mostar can save a bit also but i think it does not really make a large difference.


Sarajevo-Budapest
--->Again railplus seems to be the only option (direct train with quasi-longer stops only in Doboj and Pecs)

Budapest-Bohumin-[Zebrzydowice(gr)]
--->Again the same question. Ticket breaks maybe? We'd like to go straight with the overnight train... I remember there were some discounts for one way trip as well here...

Zebrzydowice(Gr)-Katowice [then onwards]
[I have PhD Polish ID so I also get 51% discount in Poland, that's pretty straightforward for me. Those tickets my girlfriend will buy in Poland even before departure (the date is fixed) so no hassle with border crossing here]

Goerlitz-Kehl (found sparpreis for 43 eur with bahncard)


Seems to me a bit more than 200 instead of 270. The only risk is losing 30 eur by canceling the sparpreises  :-)


Any ideas above aforementioned combining or breaking tickets will be very appreciated :-)


Thanks in advance and again sorry for asking so many questions :-)

Filip.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on December 14, 2011, 11:36:06 pm
Kehl-Zagreb [I've found 29 eur sparpreis (with bahncard)]
That's a great price for such connection, so if you know the date definitely - go with it ;)
Zagreb - Sarajevo (-Ploce?) /direct night train/
--->Railplus seems to be best option. And again, extending ticket to Mostar or Ploce will make it cheaper?
Well, here RailPlus discount doesn't contradict regular discount HZ-ZFBH, so it's not about this or that discount to choose, they just sum up.
If ZFBH website doesn't lie, then ZFBH-HZ return discount pays off more than railplus, which is contrary to what jizdenka says...
We have trouble grasping your correlation to jiizdenka, can you explain your point with precise numbers?  ZFBH-HZ it's 20% off, while RailPlus -25% (+ see the above point)
Sarajevo-Budapest
--->Again railplus seems to be the only option (direct train with quasi-longer stops only in Doboj and Pecs)
Discount here is only for return ticket, thus it's either r/t (which is cheaper than full one-way) or full fare one-way with RailPlus discount. The later option obviously cheaper for you. Also might makes sense buying domestic till Samac + international (with RailPlus) from there
Budapest-Bohumin-[Zebrzydowice(gr)] --->Again the same question. Ticket breaks maybe? We'd like to go straight with the overnight train... I remember there were some discounts for one way trip as well here...
Yep, there are SparNight ticket for direct carriages Budapest-Warszawa/Krakow. And you can buy it either online (NB: a bit troubles with MAV system almost inevitable) or take a chance and rely on purchase in Budapest during the road there (if your lady coming from Poland will travel through Budapest or she will try to catch you somewhere in Austria on your route Kehl-Zagreb?)
Goerlitz-Kehl (found sparpreis for 43 eur with bahncard)
Here you can also try search for Europa-Spezial Polen/Tschechien on DB website from Polish/Czech stations (not only till Kehl, but Baden-Baden or Karlsruhe), it can give you a good price. Or now Wroclav is must on the road back?
The only risk is losing 30 eur by canceling the sparpreises 
Unfortunately that is the potential price you pay for the cheap tickets  :-\
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on December 14, 2011, 11:56:11 pm
I've just bought both aforementioned spars + the Budapest-Katowice (well, technically Warsaw) for 29 eur :-)

!! SURPRISE !! NO PROBLEMS WITH THE MAV TICKETING SYSTEM AT ALL !!

Seems they've something changed since the summer.

Obviously, the ticket number arrives by email, and it needs to be typed in any of their machines then picked up, but it's not a problem for me in this case.

Quote
Well, here RailPlus discount doesn't contradict regular discount HZ-ZFBH, so it's not about this or that discount to choose, they just sum up.

So while asking for the ticket Zagreb-Sarajevo and showing my railplus, the cashier will just sum up both discounts?

Quote
We have trouble grasping your correlation to jiizdenka, can you explain your point with precise numbers?  ZFBH-HZ it's 20% off, while RailPlus -25% (+ see the above point)

Ok, I just did not know they would sum up.

Thus, I can see the best way is to get those three:
1. Zagreb-Sarajevo
2. Sarajevo-Ploce-Sarajevo (add. return discount)
3. Sarajevo-Budapest (if we're lucky with plans, we may also stop in Doboj, Djakovo and/or Pecs. That would help alot with the price again)

Many thanks !!
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on December 15, 2011, 01:54:48 am
!! SURPRISE !! NO PROBLEMS WITH THE MAV TICKETING SYSTEM AT ALL !!
Good for you, it's that just we heard a few complaints about Hungarian interface, acceptance of only certain cards etc., so just try to warn potential users about possible problems with MAV
... ticket number arrives by email, and it needs to be typed in any of their machines then picked up
Yep, ticket machines located at all the major station. MAV even had "how to" video somewhere on the website, but we can't find it at the moment. Nevertheless, printing shouldn't be a problem at all.
So while asking for the ticket Zagreb-Sarajevo and showing my railplus, the cashier will just sum up both discounts?
Yes, they will just subtract RailPlus discount from "usual" (for them) Zagreb-Sarajevo fare (which is SCIC-NRT-20%, if we remember correct about HZ-ZFBH discount)
Ok, I just did not know they would sum up.
RailPlius discount doesn't sum up with global fares, special offers, CityStars etc., but with regular discounts it does
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on January 06, 2012, 07:02:47 pm
Just one more question :-)

Are the MAV machine-picked-up tickets personalized?
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on January 07, 2012, 02:42:59 pm
Are the MAV machine-picked-up tickets personalized?
What exactly you mean by "personalized"? If identification, then no. The only thing you need is the code, you enter it on a touch screen and that is it.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: rasha on January 07, 2012, 09:58:42 pm
Yes, they will just subtract RailPlus discount from "usual" (for them) Zagreb-Sarajevo fare (which is SCIC-NRT-20%, if we remember correct about HZ-ZFBH discount)

Correction - it's 20% discount on HŽ-SET, and HŽ-SET is already 30% cheaper then SCIC-NRT. Same case as HŽ-ŽS (30% discount on HŽ-SET). 20% discount for HŽ-ŽFBH/ŽRS should be only for return tickets according to HŽ website: http://www.hznet.hr/povlasticeumedunarodnom (http://www.hznet.hr/povlasticeumedunarodnom)

Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on January 08, 2012, 01:22:37 pm
Yes, they will just subtract RailPlus discount from "usual" (for them) Zagreb-Sarajevo fare (which is SCIC-NRT-20%, if we remember correct about HZ-ZFBH discount)
Correction - it's 20% discount on HŽ-SET, and HŽ-SET is already 30% cheaper then SCIC-NRT. Same case as HŽ-ŽS (30% discount on HŽ-SET). 20% discount for HŽ-ŽFBH/ŽRS should be only for return tickets according to HŽ website: http://www.hznet.hr/povlasticeumedunarodnom (http://www.hznet.hr/povlasticeumedunarodnom)
Yep, our bet about those 20%, mixed r/t HZ-ZBH discount with standard HZ-ZBH SCIC-NRT discount, sorry didn't recheck on clear head.

But regarding Croatia-BiH and regular 30% there is one interesting thing. Checked notes from last Croatia visit and turns out that at Zagreb station we specifically asked about Zagreb-Sarajevo ticket, it was 220+ HRK with euro around 7.3 HRK at that point. And if we aren't mistaken, neither sides raised tariffs since, thus SCIC-NRT Zagreb-Sarajevo via Dobrljin at that time also was 40,6 EUR, while price heard in Zagreb is only around 10 EUR less, which is neither 20% or 30% off, but something in between  :-\
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: rasha on January 08, 2012, 04:09:03 pm
Well, it's strange with Bosnia since there is two operators. For example, ŽFBH has routes from all border points in Bosnia including the ones that belong to ŽRS, but ŽRS via points are not shown, and only ŽFBH kilometer distance is counted (but, still the price seams OK, eg. Dobrljin(Gr) - Maglaj is just little bit more expensive than Dobrljin(Gr) - Doboj). But, ŽRS has routes only from ŽRS border points, including border points with ŽFBH (Maglaj(TS), Brcko(TS)...), which don't exist on ŽFBH side, and has no routes which go via ŽFBH territory. So as a result you can't get ticket from ŽRS to any place if you go via ŽFBH territory. Simplest solution would be to ŽFBH add border points with ŽRS.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on January 21, 2012, 11:25:30 am
Hello, one more question regarding the subject :-)

I know than the domestic tariff is usually cheaper than the international one. Thus still a small question regarding two routes of my forthcoming trip once again :-)

1.
Zagreb - Sarajevo

In Zagreb I coul buy domestic+brzi supplement 57.70 HRK (8 eur) Zagreb-Volinja then Inetrnational+railplus Volinja Sarajevo

Standard TCV+railplus tariff is 30.50 eur for Zagreb-Sarajevo and 23.30 eur for Volinja-Sarajevo so the Zagreb-Volinja part costs 7.2 eur EVEN WITHOUT 20% (or similar) HZ-ZFBH/ZRS discount You've mentioned.

Thus, it's cheaper to buy the international ticket Zagreb-Sarajevo at once.

Right? :-)


2.
Sarajevo - Pecs

In Sarajevo I can buy domestic to Bosanski Samac then international Bosanski Samac-Pecs. The price Sarajevo-Samac is not shown, but I can assume it's less than to Sarajevo-Banja Luka (shorter distance and entity crossing) thus it's below 25.70 bam (less than 13.20 eur). Then from jizdenka Samac-Pecs with railplus is 13.70 eur.

Sarajevo-Pecs from zfbh website is 64.50 bam / 33.20 eur standard so should be 24.90 with railplus.

Thus it's again a bit cheaper or around the same price to buy a direct ticket.


As a conclusion :-) Seems like in those two cases it's cheaper to buy international ones only because of my railplus card :-) If I didn't have it, it would be better to get the combined offer.

Please correct me if I'm wrong :-)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on January 22, 2012, 01:00:09 am
Thus, it's cheaper to buy the international ticket Zagreb-Sarajevo at once.
Well, such thing does happen sometimes. Explanation here is in regression of the tariff (bigger distance-->cheaper km), so one long through ticket basically 'beats' difference between cheaper domestic tariff and more expensive international one. But in this particular case your calculations are a bit off, since, as rasha noted, we have HŽ-SET already -30% from SCIC-NRT, and additionally your RailPlus -25%, so direct international ticket Zagreb-Sarajevo will cost you even cheaper (should be around 165-170 HRK). On the contrary, also for HZ domestic ISIC gives -25% (thus Zagreb-Volinja will cost you only 43.3 kuna).
... it's again a bit cheaper or around the same price to buy a direct ticket.
Yep, here your calculations correct. But remember about <26 years old 30% discount on domestic BiH (both ZRS and ZFBH) journeys.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on January 26, 2012, 09:54:31 am
I'm >26 so I wouldn't count on that :-)

However, if the things are this way, maybe it's cheaper to buy a direct Zagreb-Ploce ticket and then Ploce-Sarajevo (both tickets one way) instead of getting Zagreb-Sarajevo one way then Sarajevo-Ploce return? [later we will leave BiH via Pecs/Budapest] cannot find Zagreb-Ploce price to compare...

And as far as I understand all the tickets here are not any "specials" so stops are allowed on route.
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on January 26, 2012, 07:55:10 pm
...cannot find Zagreb-Ploce price to compare...
Roughly around 310-315 HRK
And as far as I understand all the tickets here are not any "specials" so stops are allowed on route.
Yep, that's just a regular HZ-BiH (or HZ-BiH-HZ)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on February 13, 2012, 11:13:24 am
Ok we've just come back from our trip :-)

Let me list some remarks:

Zagreb-Sarajevo:

Both available international ticket salesmen in Zagreb said the RAILPLUS is not valid in Bosnia. The same confirmed later at the international ticket counters in Sarajevo and Mostar. Thus, Zagreb-Sarajevo one way was 231 HRK.

Mostar-Osijek: (overnight stay in Osijek).

Ticket officer in Mostar refused to sell a ticket to Osijek, saying he can do it only for a direct train (strange). Thus, I bought one to Strizivojna-Vrpolje for 47.90 BAM, then a domestic putnicki to Osijek, 29.20 HRK.

Osijek-Pecs:

International ticket office in Osijek is closed on weekends so we were issued only local putnicki to Beli Manastir (20.20 HRK). In Beli Manastir the Railplus discount was again not available due to the fixed-price (ca 44 hrk) Edmonson ticket (!!!) to Pecs. (The one I haven't seen for years. I saw the ticket officer had a large panel full of them).
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: tUt on February 13, 2012, 09:17:20 pm
Both available international ticket salesmen in Zagreb said the RAILPLUS is not valid in Bosnia.
Yep, sorry we didn't check it earlier. Somehow just thought that like every European company participates (some just for <26 and >60), and didn't even cared to recheck. Turns out that countries like UK or Ukraine are in, but BiH, Turkey and Albania are out )))
Ticket officer in Mostar refused to sell a ticket to Osijek, saying he can do it only for a direct train (strange).
Sometimes such things happen on small stations where they don't have access to the system or even good enough tariff tables to calculate the fare. But more likely your cashier just didn't bother to check tariff table (they definitely must have one in Mostar) or at least call Sarajevo to ask them.
In Beli Manastir the Railplus discount was again not available due to the fixed-price (ca 44 hrk) Edmonson ticket (!!!) to Pecs.
Wow... that's something. Did you happen to keep it? It would be interesting to see it ;)
Title: Re: Domestic border-to-border tickets for internatinal trains.
Post by: filu on February 15, 2012, 07:54:14 am
Well I don't have access to a scanner here, but it's exactly like this one :-)

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/hr/ticket/HZ_Ticket_Beli_Manastir-Pecs.jpg