Europe Trains Guide Forum

General discussion => Train fares and tariffs => Topic started by: rasha on April 12, 2010, 01:51:45 am

Title: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on April 12, 2010, 01:51:45 am
CityStar ticket is good solution for Transsiberian travel, but I was wondering is it possible to buy CityStar ticket from Slovakia to St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow? If it is, how much will be the cost for sleeping car reservation Moscow - St. Petersburg or seat on daytime trains (new Sapsan high-speed train)?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on April 12, 2010, 04:28:29 pm
CityStar ticket is good solution for Transsiberian travel, but I was wondering is it possible to buy CityStar ticket from Slovakia to St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow?
Yes, why not. ZSSK offers two types of CityStars RZD<1500km and RZD<1500km.
Zernovo(gr)-SPb is <1500km, so CityStar will cost app. 100 euro.
  If it is, how much will be the cost for sleeping car reservation Moscow - St. Petersburg or seat on daytime trains (new Sapsan high-speed train)?
Since international timetable in 2008/2009 RZD dramatically increased the price of those, so nowadays sleeper Moscow - St. Petersburg will cost app. 40 euro, for high-speed trains (like "Sapsan") even more - 60+ euro (used to be 4). Same story with Kyiv-Moscow sleepers: reservation for RZD carriages cost like three time more than for the UZ carriage.

p.s. btw, we want to remind you - CityStars Srbija-Rusija as well exists, only via Romania (or Bulgaria, Romania), as well as BDZ-RZD. Those are a little bit more expensive, than ZSSK-RZD, but maybe might be more convenient (depending on your agenda)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on April 13, 2010, 12:22:26 am
It's cheaper with Slovakian CityStar, because CityStar Srbija - Rusija via Romania is 180EUR for RŽD<1500km and 216EUR for RŽD>1500km.

(off topic) As you sad that reservation is much more expensive for Russian cars then for Ukrainian. There is train 53D Harkov Pass - Vladivostok on which there are Ukrainian cars. Maybe reservation with CityStar ticket for this train is much cheaper then with Russian train. Do you know something about that? And also, there is a direct sleeper Berlin - Novosibirsk (and maybe al the way to Irkutsk at summer months). Do you know how mach the reservation for those cost?

 And one more offtopic question: Is it possible for CityStar ticket Slovakia - Russia that there is different route going to Russia and going back (including different border point between Ukraine and Russia)?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on April 13, 2010, 01:32:39 am
It's cheaper with Slovakian CityStar, because CityStar Srbija - Rusija via Romania is 180EUR for RŽD<1500km and 216EUR for RŽD>1500km.
Yes, we are aware of these facts, but you need to pay for the tickets Serbia-Slovakia and back too ;)
+ some travelers might want to see Romania (or Bulgaria and Romania) on their way.
As you sad that reservation is much more expensive for Russian cars then for Ukrainian. There is train 53D Harkov Pass - Vladivostok on which there are Ukrainian cars. Maybe reservation with CityStar ticket for this train is much cheaper then with Russian train. Do you know something about that?
First thing - there will be no more of that historic train any more since this year summer schedule. They will cut it till Ufa only. Second thing, specifically about why it is hard to use it - the route of this train goes partly via Kazakhstan and previously cashiers refused to issue East-West sleepers for this train.
+ HAFAS doesn't see it.
And also, there is a direct sleeper Berlin - Novosibirsk (and maybe al the way to Irkutsk at summer months). Do you know how mach the reservation for those cost?
Berlin - Novosibirsk sleeper reservation will cost app. 60 euro
Is it possible for CityStar ticket Slovakia - Russia that there is different route going to Russia and going back (including different border point between Ukraine and Russia)?
ZSSK website directly says: "Cesta tam a cesta späť sa môže uskutočniť rôznymi pohraničnými prechodovými bodmi, ktoré sa uvedú na cestovnom lístku pri jeho výdaji.", but, in order to be 100% sure, it is better to email ZSSK directly about this matter.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on April 13, 2010, 11:33:48 am
Thank you, for your answers!

Well, Beograd - Budapest return ticket is 26 eur, and Budapest - Bratislava also return ticket is 16 eur, so it is still cheaper via Slovakia, then via Romania.

Do you know will Berlin (Warsaw) - Irkutsk sleeper run this summer?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on April 13, 2010, 12:09:52 pm
Do you know will Berlin (Warsaw) - Irkutsk sleeper run this summer?
Probably not, there is no signs of either of carriages on RZD or DB/PKP websites
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on April 13, 2010, 12:55:21 pm
http://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=DB&cislo=443/14&rok=2010 (http://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=DB&cislo=443/14&rok=2010)
In meantime I found that Berlin - Irkutsk sleeper is shown here. In case it starts running will it be the same reservation cost as for Berlin - Novosibirsk (60eur) or little bit more?

It's not shown here: http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=5129 (http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=5129), but it's noted here, on bottom of page: http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=5126 (http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=5126)

>>Поезд № 013Й/014Й Москва – Берлин с беспересадочными вагонами Москва – Париж, Санкт-Петербург – Берлин, Иркутск – Берлин.<<
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on April 13, 2010, 04:30:31 pm
In case it starts running will it be the same reservation cost as for Berlin - Novosibirsk (60eur) or little bit more?
The distance is a little bit different, so obviously sleeper reservation would be a little bit more expensive.
It's not shown here: http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=5129 (http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=5129), but it's noted here, on bottom of page: http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=5126 (http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=5126)
>>Поезд № 013Й/014Й Москва – Берлин с беспересадочными вагонами Москва – Париж, Санкт-Петербург – Берлин, Иркутск – Берлин.<<
It seems that it is better to trust the first link (since carriage suppose to be listed there), then some secondary note at the bottom of RZD-PKP page.
Anyway, at the moment neither Russian or German system sees it, so the only thing we can say - it was running three previous summers, but not yet in the system for the upcoming one.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: Tshen on May 29, 2010, 08:27:08 pm
hi.
if i will buy ticket on Zilina-Moscow car in Slovakia, how much will be the price??? and can i book ticket on this train, because in Russia there are no tickets even for max. period: 45 days.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on May 29, 2010, 09:39:49 pm
if i will buy ticket on Zilina-Moscow car in Slovakia, how much will be the price??? and can i book ticket on this train, because in Russia there are no tickets even for max. period: 45 days.
Ticket+sleeper reservation Zilina-Moscow cost 114 euro, when there is no Zilina-Moscow carriage, then there is Kosice-Moscow carriage (ticket+sleeper reservation - 93 euro).

Tickets for such international connections are sold up to 60 days in advance (45 days rule applies only for Russian domestic travels and travels from Russia to Ukraine, Belarus and other exUSSR countries)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: Tshen on May 29, 2010, 09:54:44 pm
45 days - is the max. term to buy tickets in CIS countries, even on international trains...
now i guessed, why there are no tickets even for 45 days: all tickets were purchased by europeans for 60 days :(
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on May 29, 2010, 10:09:43 pm
45 days - is the max. term to buy tickets in CIS countries, even on international trains.
Not quite, international tickets from CIS countries to Europe are sold as well starting from 60 days in advance, so in your case it is probably some other obstacle - either no tickets available or maybe there will be slight timetable change and ticket sale is simply blocked yet.

Where exactly you try to purchase your ticket and what route (full route Zilina-Moscow purchasing in Slovakia? or not)?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: Tshen on May 29, 2010, 10:15:37 pm
I try to book this ticket on rzd.ru. there are NO tickets at all. Then i called to Kyivsky Rail Station. There are NO tickets too.
And this is not only on this train. Tiskets Minsk-Warszawa, for example, appear only for 45 days... This term is everywhere: In Belarus, in Russia, in Ukraine...

p.s. Can anyone explain me this paragraph:
Quote
But there is a good trick to save some money. Main secret is in the use of foreign/international train tickets for domestic Russian routes. Best offers here from Slovakia, Serbia and Bulgaria. All this countries sell CityStar tickets to Russia. Here some numbers for the most popular Slovakia-Russia CityStar (via Ukraine): CityStar itself costs 134.4 euro (2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th person of a group travelling together pays additionally only 67,2 EUR or half out of basic price). So return ticket any station in Slovakia-Vladivostok- any station in Slovakia for two people costs only 201.6 euro. But you still need to buy sleeping car reservations (specific place in specific train).

Zilina-Moscow (Zilina it is the first train station from were run train to Moscow via Ukraine) reservation costs only 24 euro; Moscow-Vladivostok 220 euro (Moskva – Irkutsk 148 EUR; Irkutsk – Vladivostok 127 EUR etc.). Two full tickets Moscow-Vladivostok-Moscow will cost you only 201.6euro+220*4= 1081.6 euro while domestic Russian tickets for two for the same route and the same train cost – app.1500 euro. You save more than 400 euro out of nothing + you can use your ticket from Bratislva/Kosice/Lviv/Kiev etc. (in this case you save even more)
specially about Zilina-Moscow for 24 Euro...

And one question more: are there RUSSIAN cars on this international trains??? I mean usual russian "kupe" and "СВ" but not european 2 or 3 seats cars. Are there a "plackart" maybe? ;)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on May 29, 2010, 10:50:51 pm
I try to book this ticket on rzd.ru. there are NO tickets at all.
There are three types of tickets in Russia: domestic, interstate ("mezgosudarstvennye" - to CIS countries) and international ("megdynarodnye" to all other European countries + China, N.Korea and Mongolia). And there is no way to purchase international tickets online from rzd.ru website - it is simply impossible technically, so no need even to try, while first two categories you can purchase online.
But anyway, it sounds rather strange that at Moskva-Kievskaya train station they told you that there is no ticket for this carriage. What date did you ask about?
are there RUSSIAN cars on this international trains??? I mean usual russian "kupe" and "СВ" but not european 2 or 3 seats cars. Are there a "plackart" maybe?
Yes, Zilina-Moscow carriage belongs to Russian Railways, but it is special RIC format. Usual second class compartment is for 3 people. RIC carriage from outside - http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ru/car/RIC_WLABm/DSCF6079.jpg and from inside http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ru/car/RIC_WLABmee/interior/20060702_024.jpg
"Platskart" carriages don't cross the border, so you can catch them only from Moscow to Chop (last Ukrainian station before Slovakia). No "kupe" or "SV" carriages in that direction either, so only 3 bed compartments in 2 class or 2 bed compartments in 1st class (actually in 1st class it is the same compartment as in 2nd class, but railways simply don't sell the middle bed)
specially about Zilina-Moscow for 24 Euro...
It is the fare for sleeper reservation ("rezervaziya mesta" or "platskarta"), in order to travel you also need the ticket (for distance)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: Tshen on May 29, 2010, 11:13:24 pm
i asked to 11 of july.
it is very strange that it is impossible to book ticket out of Cis... but some year ago my friend have booked tickets to Vilnius in that way...
nevertheless, 114Euro is too expensive for me... i'll try to go by this route, but with a lot of changes: Minsk-Lvov by 47train, then Lvov-Uzhgorod by 15train, then Uzhgorod-Cosice by bus and then to L.Mikulas by train. 47Euros for all... Neither more nor less, but it is cheaper in 2.5 times...
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on May 30, 2010, 12:09:27 am
it is very strange that it is impossible to book ticket out of Cis... but some year ago my friend have booked tickets to Vilnius in that way...
Vilnius is considered as "interstate" destination and not international, so you can buy tickets from Moscow to Vilnius any time online, as far as they are available.
nevertheless, 114Euro is too expensive for me... i'll try to go by this route, but with a lot of changes: Minsk-Lvov by 47train, then Lvov-Uzhgorod by 15train, then Uzhgorod-Cosice by bus and then to L.Mikulas by train. 47Euros for all... Neither more nor less, but it is cheaper in 2.5 times...
Aha, so your real interest is in Minsk-L.Mikulas. This info changes quite a lot. First of all, you can easily catch Moscow-Zilina carriage already in Lviv, as you can guess Lviv-Zilina ticket fare is much less.
And some comments on already mentioned by you option: better not to use train #15 from Lviv to Uzghorod - since it is Russian train=it is more expensive than Ukrainian ones, plus you don't get a good sleep with it. Use train #99 Kiev-Uzghorod (you'll get whole night to sleep and it will cost less), it arrives right before departure of the morning Uzghorod-Kosice bus (bus station is across the square from train station). And in case money is a real issue, then it is better not to use direct Minsk-Lviv train ("interstate" tariff), but to use Belarussian and Ukrainian domestic tariff, thus "break" your tickets via border, if you are interested in specifics - ask ;)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: Stjärna on May 30, 2010, 01:27:38 am
Dear Tshen!

I did not understand your problem 100% precisely. However if you would like to get cheap to Moscow from Slovakia, the best option is to cross the borders as tUt suggested in the previous post. It is less convenient in term of time but cheaper. And my advice to call (or visit) the International Ticket Office in Moscow (Komsomolskaya sq.) instead of Railway stations. I suspect they know more about international tickets (I mean non ex-USSR countries where we have the same system) and thus more helpful.

Regards,
Mike.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: Tshen on May 30, 2010, 10:32:18 am
1. 99th train arrive to Uzhgorod at 07.49, and bus to Cosice leaves bus station at 7.40 so I do not have time...
p.s. but who bothers me to buy tickets on RUSSIAN 15 train in RUSSIA, where the prixe will be less than in UA.
2. About "direct" Minsk-Lviv train: this, 47th train is russian, and it only passes through Belarus, so tickets will be in Minsk only for 24-48 hours before arrival. So, i'll buy it in Russia from the nearest border station...
But if you know ways cheaper than 45Euro... i I'll be glad to listen.

p.s. Может быть на русский перейдем-таки;)?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: Stjärna on May 30, 2010, 01:59:56 pm
1. 99th train arrive to Uzhgorod at 07.49, and bus to Cosice leaves bus station at 7.40 so I do not have time...
p.s. but who bothers me to buy tickets on RUSSIAN 15 train in RUSSIA, where the prixe will be less than in UA.
The price will be almost the same in Russia or Ukraine with the difference of small taxes applied. However if you are buying the ticket to the Ukrainian train in Ukraine it will be cheaper (e.g. this 99 Uzhgorod - Kiev).

2. About "direct" Minsk-Lviv train: this, 47th train is russian, and it only passes through Belarus, so tickets will be in Minsk only for 24-48 hours before arrival. So, i'll buy it in Russia from the nearest border station...
That is true but there is also Belarus train No372 Ivano-Frankovsk - Minsk which passes Lvov. It departs at 23:12 from Lvov and arrives to Minsk at 12:33 next day. The ticket will be 3,5 - 4 euro cheaper than in No47 Lvov - S.-Petersburg.

Regards,
Mike.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: Tshen on May 30, 2010, 02:44:39 pm
i know about this train. it arrive to Lviv on 04.55, so i can be in Uzhgorod only at 12.30 and this time there are no buses to Slovakia...
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: Stjärna on May 30, 2010, 03:00:38 pm
Ah, sorry! I thought you need an opposite direction. There should be a bus to Michalovce at 14:15 or it does not suite you?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: Tshen on May 30, 2010, 03:05:11 pm
mm, sorry, are you SURE that there is such bus to Michalovce??? i haven't find it in timetable...
if it really is, it's very good. now i'm looking for trains from Michalovce to L.Mikulas...
p.s. when does this bus arrive to Michalovce???

and one queston more: Are students discounts on ZSR applying for international students with ISIC card???
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on June 02, 2010, 08:17:15 pm
are you SURE that there is such bus to Michalovce??? i haven't find it in timetable...
Buses leave at 13:15 and 15:10 (http://www.sadmi.sk/downloads/807807.pdf)
Are students discounts on ZSR applying for international students with ISIC card?
No, unfortunately
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on June 11, 2010, 01:38:34 pm
I counted that return ticket Budapest - Moscow should cost 104,38 euros. Right?

Which trains between Moscow and Kiev are Ukrainian, and which are Russian? And how much is the price for reservation in kupe, for Ukrainian, and how much for Russian. Also how much is reservation cost for kupe Kiev - Lvov, and for 3-bed sleeper Budapest - Moscow, and Lvov - Belgrade (or Budapest)?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on June 11, 2010, 02:35:08 pm
I counted that return ticket Budapest - Moscow should cost 104,38 euros. Right?
No, return ticket Budapest-Moscow-Budapest via Chop costs 135 euro + 24 euro for sleeper 2/3 each way.
Sleeper reservations: Lviv-Belgrade costs 15 euro for RZD carriage (2/3) and 20 euro for UZ carriage (2/2). Lviv-Budapest - 10 euro RZD carriage 2/3 and 18 euro UZ (2/2 if Kiev-Budapest carriage used or 2/3 if Lviv-Budapest carriage used). Plus if you purchase it in Ukraine, then you will need to pay small commission for purchasing international sleeper reservation (app. 3 euro)
Which trains between Moscow and Kiev are Ukrainian, and which are Russian? And how much is the price for reservation in kupe, for Ukrainian, and how much for Russian.
Sleeper reservation 2/4 ("kupe") for RZD carriage costs 55 euro, UZ - 16 euro. Most of the trains on the route are Ukrainian, so it is easier to list RZD trains (#16, #22 and some additional summer/holidays trains like #252 or #126). Also RZD carriages serve train #1/2 ("Stolychnyi Ekspress") on uneven dates this month, on even dates there are UZ carriages.
We would recommend not to test unknown trains and simply use "classics" - either UZ #1 train (once in two days), or almost as good in comfort, but slower #4 or #6 (both everyday)
Also how much is reservation cost for kupe Kiev - Lvov
Well, it doesn't really make sense to use international ticket (issued with "East-West") on this route, because sleeper for it will cost same fare as full domestic ticket for most expensive train on the route. Plus you will have some headache purchasing it, because ticket counters in Lviv or Kiev not really often sell something like this, so you might loose a lot of time and effort  ;)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on June 11, 2010, 03:46:28 pm
Thank you.  :)

No, return ticket Budapest-Moscow-Budapest via Chop costs 135 euro
Why is that? It's listed on your site that for return tickets between Hungary and Russia via Ukraine there is 50% discount for Hungarian and Ukrainian part, and 30% for Russian part. I counted with TCV tariff (should be same as East-West? or not?).

Considering all this, what do you think is the cheapest variant for traveling Belgrade - Budapest - Moscow, with stops in Lvov and Kiev? (considering also option via Slovakia (City Star) if cheaper)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on June 11, 2010, 04:53:13 pm
Ok, fare 135.6 euro we took from one of the RZD websites, but let's count, so we can find the truth )
Budapest-Zahony(gr) 338km, 31.4 euro ; Zahony(gr)-Zernovo(gr) - 1252km, 49.4 euro; Zernovo(gr)-Moscow 517km, 33.8 euro. So, 31.4+49.4+33.8*2*0.7= app. 128.2 euro.
We aren't really sure about those additional 7 euro of difference with quoted earlier price, but it might be some miscalculations or some kind of commission of RZD counter.

As far as we can see, the price you counted was modified because you probably used jizdenka. But due to some other reason it gives additional 20% off for tickets in Ukraine, Russia etc. If you purchase tickets outside of Czech Republic, then you will pay full fare as we counted above (let's say roughly around 130-135 euro).

Concerning ZSSK-RZD: CityStar price stayed the same as last year, so RZD<1500km base tariff 100 euro, RZD>1500km - 134 euro. Sleeper reservation Kosice/Zilina-Moscow - 24 euro.

Concerning ZS-RZD: The only CityStar price we have is 186 euro for RZD<1500km (but it might be rather old, so we can't guarantee it. Since you are in Serbia, then you can recheck it easily). And roughly 10-15 euro for sleeper till Buchurest and another 20-25 for sleeper till Moscow.

Other option: simply purchase Beograde-Zahony r/t with 60% off, then couple euro for crossborder Zahony-Chop. Best train from Chop to Kiev costs only 153 UAH (app. 15 euro) for "kupe" 2/4. Kiev-Moscow depends on your choice of the train and carriage type, we just gone say that the most expensive #1 train costs 800 UAH (app. 80 euro) for "kupe", cheapest "kupe" app. 600 UAH, "platskartyi" - 350 UAH etc.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on June 13, 2010, 10:13:42 am
Is it possible to buy return ticket outward Budapest - Kiev, and return only Lvov - Budapest? How much would it be, arround 60 euros? And also, how much is the Budapest - Kiev sleeper cost?

And please write me prices for domestic Ukrainian trains Lvov - Kiev, Kiev - Simferopol, Kiev - Odessa, Simferopol - Odessa, Odessa - Lvov, and Simferopol - Lvov for 2/4 "kupe".
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on June 13, 2010, 11:25:05 am
Is it possible to buy return ticket outward Budapest - Kiev, and return only Lvov - Budapest? How much would it be, arround 60 euros? And also, how much is the Budapest - Kiev sleeper cost?
As of now in connection MAV-UZ discount is the same for one way or return tickets, so you might as well purchase two separate tickets Budapest-Kiev and Lviv-Budapest.
Budapest-Kiev costs app. 45 euro, sleeper reservation for UZ carriage 23 euro (2/2), for RZD - 17 euro (2/3). Lviv-Budapest app. 25 euro, sleeper 18 euro (UZ either 2/2 if Kiev-Budapest/Beograde carriages used or 2/3 if you use Lviv-Budapest carriage); 10 euro RZD (2/3), but remember - in advance you can purchase reservations only for UZ carriages, for RZD - only on the day of travel (basically only after "Tisza" leaves Moscow). 
Plus you need to count some small commissions (like 3 euro on UZ) and fluctuations of exchange rates, since you pay in UAH or HUF.
And please write me prices for domestic Ukrainian trains Lvov - Kiev, Kiev - Simferopol, Kiev - Odessa, Simferopol - Odessa, Odessa - Lvov, and Simferopol - Lvov for 2/4 "kupe".
Fares for "flagship" branded trains (usually fastest trains with newest carriages on the route), so you'll get idea about maximum fares:
Lviv-Kiev: train #92 (164 UAH, linen included), but there are trains where you will pay only 100 UAH for "kupe"
Kiev-Simferopol: #12 (211 UAH, linen included), there are trains where you will pay only 140 UAH for "kupe"
Kiev-Odesa: #105 (154 UAH, linen included), there are trains where you will pay only 110 UAH for "kupe"
Simferopol-Odesa: no choice here, since there is only one everyday train #650 (depending on carriage "kupe" from 95 to 125 UAH)
Simferopol-Lviv: #86 (196 UAH, linen included), other trains like #256 or #296 same fare, but probably older carriages.
Odesa-Lviv: #26 (135 UAH, linen included), there are trains where you will pay only 117 UAH for "kupe"

Since Odesa and Crimea tend to be rather popular destinations during summer, then you might experience some problems with tickets for those best "flagship" trains, especially if purchasing not in advance. So it is better to buy all your tickets first thing after you'll get on Ukrainian territory. UZ counters doesn't have any commission for purchasing tickets in advance or not from the station of your departure, so you can buy all the tickets within Ukraine in Chop, for instance - the fare will be the same as in Kiev, Lviv, Odesa or Simferopol.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on June 13, 2010, 01:34:19 pm
Thank you, once again.  :)

As of now in connection MAV-UZ discount is the same for one way or return tickets, so you might as well purchase two separate tickets Budapest-Kiev and Lviv-Budapest.
Well, that's great news, just, the Budapest - Kiev ticket should be less than 45 euros. On MAV-Start website it's stated that return ticket Budapest - Kiev is 76,80 eur, so one way shuold be half of that, considering that now is same discount for one way and return tickets.

but remember - in advance you can purchase reservations only for UZ carriages, for RZD - only on the day of travel (basically only after "Tisza" leaves Moscow). 
Just to make sure, this is only for Ukraine - Hungary, not for Hungary - Ukraine?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on June 13, 2010, 02:14:24 pm
On MAV-Start website it's stated that return ticket Budapest - Kiev is 76,80 eur, so one way shuold be half of that, considering that now is same discount for one way and return tickets.
If you referring to a map from MAV website (http://www.mav-start.hu/utazas/nemzetkozi/nemzetkozi_index.php), then we would not trust it so easily. Some fares there tend to be out of date - check Budapest-Krakow return (it's not 78, but 90 euro) etc.
Other evidence - last month one of our team members was in Kiev and exactly checked fares for international routes. Kiev-Budapest one way ticket+reservation was just over 800 UAH (exchange rate at that time was 10.5 UAH for 1 euro), means around 75 euro for the whole package, minus reservation and commission we have around 45 euro for the base ticket. That is the reason why we gave you maximum to expect (same thing with Lviv-Budapest). But if we follow strictly tariff tables, then yes, fare should be around 38-40 euro, but we aren't sure about that 5-7 euro difference here - maybe some kind of hidden cost or exchange rate fluctuations. Anyway - you won't pay more than 45 euro, that is for sure  ;) 
Just to make sure, this is only for Ukraine - Hungary, not for Hungary - Ukraine?
Yes, in Budapest you can easily buy in advance reservations for both RZD and UZ carriages (Budapest-Moscow and Budapest-Kiev respectively). But in case you want to use Belgrade, Zagreb or Venezia carriages, then same story - sleeper reservation can be bought only after MAV receives info about number of passengers in those carriages (--> means after leaving start destination).
Since usually there are always some seats left in either of carriages, so it is not a problem to buy reservation even an hour before departure or even from conductor already in the carriage.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on June 13, 2010, 09:25:45 pm
Well, then I can buy both tickets Budapest - Kiev and Lvov - Budapest already in Budapest, and only sleeper reservation Lvov - Budapest/Belgrade in Lvov, so it will probably be few euros cheaper. And also, I can save few euros if I buy Belgrade - Zahony return ticket, and then in Budapest buy Zahony - Kiev and Lvov - Zahony. That way I can get 60% discount between Budapest and Zahony instead of 50%. I hope conductors will not make some problems with that. I realise that that is legal.

I think that for Budapest - Krakow is written 78 euros because the cheapest one way SparNight ticket is 39 euros (6-berth couchette), so both ways is 2X = 78 euros.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on June 13, 2010, 09:41:29 pm
I can save few euros if I buy Belgrade - Zahony return ticket, and then in Budapest buy Zahony - Kiev and Lvov - Zahony. That way I can get 60% discount between Budapest and Zahony instead of 50%. I hope conductors will not make some problems with that. I realise that that is legal.
Yes, it is fully legal. But it will be a little bit vexing, because of the knowledge that ticket from Chop (which is couple km from Zahony) costs like 3 times less (or even more with Lviv-Zahony) for almost same comfort  :-\
Anyway, it is your choice. Option with Beograde-Zahony r/t+Zahony-Kiev+reservation Beograde/Budapest-Kiev sounds reasonable, if you don't want to deal with train changes at the Hungary-Ukraine border.
I think that for Budapest - Krakow is written 78 euros because the cheapest one way SparNight ticket is 39 euros (6-berth couchette), so both ways is 2X = 78 euros.
Hmm... you probably right, they meant SparNight  ;)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on June 23, 2010, 01:29:03 pm
Considering variant via Romania, how much will be the cost for ticket Chernovtsi - Bucuresti, and Lvov - Bucuresti?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on June 23, 2010, 02:31:01 pm
Lviv-Bucuresti one way ticket cost app. 45 euro, sleeper for UZ carriage 16 euro (2/4), for RZD should be cheaper, but don't know exactly.
Chernivtsi-Bucuresti one way ticket cost app. 32 euro, sleeper UZ - 13 euro (2/4), same story with RZD sleeper.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on July 02, 2010, 01:45:38 am
And how much is cost for sleeper Zilina - Lvov RZD coach, Bratislava - Lvov UZ coach, Lvov - Moscow (RZD adn UZ), Kiev - Zilina RZD coach and Kiev - Bratislava UZ coach?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on July 02, 2010, 03:09:41 pm
Kiev-Bratislava (24 euro, UZ 2/3), Kiev-Zilina (19 euro, RZD, 2/3), Lviv-Zilina (15 euro, RZD, 2/3), Bratislava-Lviv (19 euro, UZ, 2/3)
Lviv-Moscow 2/4, 20 euro for UZ carriages and around 60 euro for RZD carriages (both in case of East-West tariff) or a bit more if 2/3 RIC carriages used.
Also to remind you - on the route Lviv-Moscow the only train having RZD carriages is "Tisza" (#15/16), trains #74 and #142 served by UZ.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on July 08, 2010, 05:11:49 pm
How much in advance domestic tickets in Ukraine has to be bought to secure kupe place, or at least platskart? I plan to stay in Lvov only 3 days (2 nights), and then move to Odesa by night train. Will it be too late? It's late July. I will also buy tickets Odesa - Simferopol, and Simferopol - Kiev in already in Lvov to secure place. Also, is it possible to buy ticket Kiev - Budapest in Budapest already, and then buy only reservation in Kiev?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on July 08, 2010, 05:41:55 pm
Lviv-Odesa: generally, you will not have problems. Even if all the tickets for train #26 will be sold out (quite usual thing during summer), then there are still additional train #228 Lviv-Odesa, as well as regular #136 Chernivtsi/Ivano-Frankivsk-Odesa and #107 Uzghorod-Odesa. Just checked - even for today there are some places left.
Simferopol - Kiev route during summer served by dozen of trains, so no problems there. Purchase of tickets for Odesa - Simferopol couple day in advance should be fine too.
is it possible to buy ticket Kiev - Budapest in Budapest already, and then buy only reservation in Kiev?
Yes, why not.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on July 09, 2010, 01:09:22 pm
I checked at http://www.e-kvytok.com.ua (http://www.e-kvytok.com.ua), for 3 days ahead, and there are no places left available for any train Lvov - Odesa. Is it only internet availability, and there are some tickets left only to buy at station?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on July 09, 2010, 01:35:08 pm
Probably yes, there are suppose to be some kind of station reservation (available for sale only in Lviv). Another most possible explanation - Friday and weekend - as you can guess - busiest time. For Monday 12/07 there are still almost hundred places left.
If you worry that much:
1) there are two direct everyday trains Lviv-Kherson, they go via small station Kolosivka. From there you can catch multiple suburban trains to Odesa (between 2 to 3 hours)
2) catch any train from Lviv to Zhmerinka. The station can be considered as main gate to Odesa. All the trains from West and North of the country transit the station, so from there you will definitely find some places, especially 3 days in advance.
3) If you for 100% sure about your date of departure - buy ticket from e-kvytok. Commission won't be that high - between 15 and 30 UAH (depending on type of carriage and train).
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on August 09, 2010, 02:42:46 pm
We came back from Ukraine. Had no problems buying tickets for domestic train, except the language barrier, but I used some of my russian, learned years ago.  :)

We payed 20 euros for UZ 2/3 carriage Budapest-Lviv, directly to provodnik, but for return we bought it at the station it was 32 euros (it was 19 euros reservation, and 13 euros of taxes). So, it's better to get it directly from provodnik if you go from Ukraine back.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on August 09, 2010, 03:27:22 pm
We came back from Ukraine. Had no problems buying tickets for domestic train, except the language barrier, but I used some of my russian, learned years ago.
Good to hear. Hope you didn't melt under Ukrainian sun  ;)
We payed 20 euros for UZ 2/3 carriage Budapest-Lviv, directly to provodnik
with receipt or "unofficially"?
but for return we bought it at the station it was 32 euros (it was 19 euros reservation, and 13 euros of taxes)
Hmm... really strange. It is possible to believe that cashiers approximated reservation toward bigger sum and took 19 instead of 18 euro, but "13 euro of taxes" sounds extremely unreasonable  ???
It's never been more than 3 euro, so we don't even know what to say. Can you scan/make a photo of the reservation and post it here, thus we can take a look?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on August 09, 2010, 06:05:07 pm
Almost got melt.  ;D

We payed unofficially, no receipt.

Well, we saw that commission for international ticket/reservation is 40 UAH, and there were some more few smaller "taxes", written on reservation. But that was maybe because we bought Lviv-Budapest reservation in Kiev. And, also, the cashier needed 25 minutes to issue the ticket. I just called my friend who kept the the reservation, but he couldn't find it. He probably trown it away.  :) If he find's it, I'll post it.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on August 09, 2010, 06:19:01 pm
we saw that commission for international ticket/reservation is 40 UAH
Exactly, it used to be 45 UAH, now 40 UAH. It is standard commission for purchase of international sleeper reservations on UZ.
But that was maybe because we bought Lviv-Budapest reservation in Kiev.
No, I doubt it. In Ukraine fare doesn't depend on place or date of ticket purchase.
And, also, the cashier needed 25 minutes to issue the ticket.
Yepp, it is very well known problem since tickets issued by hand + most of the cashiers at international counters in Ukraine aren't very professional, thus having troubles when they need to issue ticket/reservation from station other than there own.
If he find's it, I'll post it.
Ok, it's simply interesting what for you payed almost 10 extra euro.

Anyway, sorry for misleading you with reservation price. All the official docs show 18 euro for Lviv-Budapest in UZ carriage + standard app. 3 euro (40 UAH) commission.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on August 09, 2010, 08:41:01 pm
Yes, my mistake, it was 45 UAH, not 40UAH. Well, now 1 EUR is 10 UAH, so it's 4,5 EUR.

Don't be sorry, you couldn't now that.
You said in some earlier post that member of your team bought Kiev-Budapest one way ticket + reservation 800 UAH, which also more than it should be, so there are obviously some hidden costs.

And also one thing that can help. We paid return ticket Budapest-Lviv 53 EUR (arrond 14 500 HUF), but the lady, who was in our compartment paid one way ticket Budapest-Lviv arround 10 000, and she also bought it in Budapest as we did. So it looks like it is not 50% reduction for one way ticket MAV-UZ. It's more like 25% or something similar.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on September 02, 2010, 02:38:09 pm
I found out that from 1st September Moscow - Žilina through sleeping car is running all the way to Bratislava.  :)

Now I have a set of questions  ;D

What is the price for T3 reservation Kiev - Bratislava and Lviv - Bratislava for UZ coach on train 7KJ?
Which trains from Moscow to Lviv are with UZ T4 carriages, and how much reservation for them cost?
Is it possible to make reservation on Transsiberian route with CityStar ticket, for trains continuing to China, Mongolia or North Korea?

In a mail ŽSSK representative send me, he said that in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia if using CityStar ticket and breaking the trip, ticket has to be validated at that station up to 3 hours after schedule arrival. Is it true? And where it should be validated? At international ticket desk?

Thank you very much for your help!  :)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on September 02, 2010, 03:19:56 pm
What is the price for T3 reservation Kiev - Bratislava and Lviv - Bratislava for UZ coach on train 7KJ?
We already discussed it - http://europetrainsguide.com/forum/index.php/topic,51.msg343.html#msg343
Which trains from Moscow to Lviv are with UZ T4 carriages
All the regular all year round trains from Lviv to Moscow (meant #74 Lviv-Moscow, #142 Chernivtsi-Moscow and direct carriage Truskavets-Moscow, runs with #116 train from Lviv) served by UZ, the only train served by RZD is #16 (also known as "Tisza").
During holidays and other peak dates RZD sometimes runs additional Moscow-Chop train #125/126, but it happens rarely.
Is it possible to make reservation on Transsiberian route with CityStar ticket, for trains continuing to China, Mongolia or North Korea?
Yes, but only till last Russian station. For instance, you buy CityStar Bratislava-Naushki, board carriage Bratislava-Moscow, arrive to Moscow, where you can easily purchase reservation for Ulan-Baator train, but only till Naushki (as last Russian station). If you want to continue further, then you'll need to buy additionally Naushki-Ulan-Baator ticket+reservation.

NB: If you plan trip to Mongolia/China/N.Korea (with or without stops in Russia), then you might consider MPT ticket instead of East-West CityStar. The reason behind it is that MPT tariff is still quite cheap since it haven't changes for a long time (even sleeper reservations), while reservations for domestic Russian journeys with CityStar were raised couple years ago and cost a fortune now, thus MPT might be actually a cheaper option.

In a mail ŽSSK representative send me, he said that in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia if using CityStar ticket and breaking the trip, ticket has to be validated at that station up to 3 hours after schedule arrival. Is it true? And where it should be validated? At international ticket desk?
Sounds strange, because if you'll use East-West tariff ticket it's not bounded with anything besides two month validity period, so no point at all to make any validations. Probably those guys in ZSSK mixed it up with UZ/RZD/BCh domestic tickets. Since in CIS countries ticket and reservation is issued together on one ticket sheet, thus "bounded", so if you want to break your journey, then sleeper reservation is official "vanished"(=passenger got off train), but ticket part is valid and can be used for other train, but here comes that validation. In order to continue the journey with such ticket, you need to show up to the administrator at the station, she officially stamps ticket as "break in journey" and only then it can be used later. The only thing you need is to purchase new sleeper reservation for the train you need.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on September 02, 2010, 04:05:06 pm
Oh sorry, I just forgot I already asked that...

So, if I understand correctly reservations with Citystar are more expensive then those with MPT tariff? For example, if I buy MPT ticket Moscow - Beijing and brake my trip in Irkutsk,Ii will pay less for reservations then using Citystar till Naushki or Zabaikalsk and then MPT till Beijing? Even the reservation Moscow - Irkuts will be less?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on September 02, 2010, 04:52:04 pm
reservations with Citystar are more expensive then those with MPT tariff?
Yes, Moscow-Irkutsk reservation T4 cost 155 euro, while MTP reservation T4 Moscow-Irkutsk cost only around 40 CHF for Chinese train #4. For Russian #6 it is already around 70 CHF since RZD has higher sleeper multiplier, but still it is far not 155 EUR.

On the contrary, CityStar is better as ticket itself, since you pay 134.4 euro and you free to go there and back, while MPT ticket is obviously more expensive on this matter. In order to illustrate, MPT ticket Moscow-Sukhe-Baator (first station in Mongolia) will cost around 210-220 CHF and it's only one way.

Resume: you need carefully to consider routing (whether one way or return), number of stops etc., only afterward it will be possible to say what is cheaper overall option MPT from Moscow or East-West from Slovakia till Russian border+MTP further on.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on September 02, 2010, 06:16:03 pm
Well, first I planned to go to Vladivostok with stops in Moscow, Yekaterinburg and Irkutsk, since Serbian citizens don't need visa for Russia, but need return ticket for China to get Chineese visa, so it looks realy difficult to get Chinese visa here in Belgrade, without flying there. I'm still considering my options. Since I plan in it for next summer, I will wait and see maybe some prices change till then.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on September 02, 2010, 10:10:10 pm
need return ticket for China to get Chineese visa, so it looks realy difficult to get Chinese visa here in Belgrade, without flying there.
The problem is that the only place where you can potentially buy rail ticket to China is Moscow (maybe SPb as well) and other big stations on the way of Chinese trains, other confirmed place is Riga, maybe Tallinn, but it is not confirmed.
While Belarus and Ukraine being officially in MPT, but, as far as we know, nobody succeeded in buying ticket to China from there, so it difficult to be sure about those places of purchase.   
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on September 02, 2010, 11:01:55 pm
Yes, that is a problem. There was some talk about ŽS connecting with RDŽ tariff system, probably as a part of Russian government 800 million $ credit for modernisation of railway infrastructure in Serbia. But probably, I'll have to wait few years for that...
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on October 08, 2010, 04:44:18 pm
I noticed you calculated 30% discount on East-West tariff, on the whole lenght of journey, but on your website it's stated that there is 30% discount only on RŽD part, and 50% on MA'V and UZ part. So, which one is true of these two?
It is 50% off on MAV and UZ, definitely. But I can't see the problem, earlier calculations are correct - Zahony(gr)-Zernovo(gr) one way full fare is 49.4 euro, but due to 50% discount same sum corresponds to the return fare, that is why we didn't multiply it by anything, same story with MAV part, while on RZD it's not 50% off, so we can't just take one way full fare (33.8 euro). We need to multiply it by 2 since we want return ticket and then adjust it according to the existing discount, thus roughly multiply by 0.7

It will be easier to understand if we will put it fully:  (31.4 euro*2*0.5) + (49.4 euro*2*0.5) + (33.8 euro*2*0.7)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on October 30, 2010, 06:56:20 pm
It's stated that there is a 20% to 40% discount on East-West tariff for groups of 6 and more. How much is discount for Serbia - Russia tickets, or more correctly Belgrade - Moscow via MAV and UZ? And also, is it possible to use 25% RailPlus discount for ticket Belgrade - Moscow?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on October 30, 2010, 09:37:03 pm
How much is discount for Serbia - Russia tickets, or more correctly Belgrade - Moscow via MAV and UZ?
Since every participating railway sets there own discount, but not everybody publishes there tariff tables, thus it's a bit difficult to find out exact percentage on every railway. In the case of RZD-ZS via UZ, MAV we have access only to percentage of UZ and MAV give, couldn't find anything about precise percentage for RZD or ZS.
But the good thing is that RZD published both fares - individual and group. For Moscow-Belgrade they have 113.9 euro for individual and 95.2 euro for group passengers (both are 2nd class and already including seat reservation, which can be easily deducted). As you can already guess, from here you can get a general idea of what to expect.
And also, is it possible to use 25% RailPlus discount for ticket Belgrade - Moscow?
As far as we know, only UZ (along with LG and LDZ) participates in RailPlus from "East-West" tariff countries, so no RailPlus discount for connections till RZD.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on November 05, 2010, 05:57:22 pm
I found a post No.3 in this topic on Thorntree forum (http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1567084 (http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1567084)). It's about combining CityStar ticket with MPT sleeper reservations. It looks rather complicated but not impossible to do so, as explained in this post:

Quote
The ticket should be bought best from Wasteels in Bratislava, in my opinion the railway station office is not as good.
Reason: Wasteels issues hand-written tickets and will have no problem with border points like Naushki(GR), Mandschuria(GR), Tumangan(GR).
However, the border points are not in the Slovak ticket computer, only Naushki (as station), Zabaikalsk (as station) and no Tumangan.
They can issue to border-points as well, it just takes 24 hours and a lot of red tape.

In my opinion legally - looking at SMPS legal guide book - the CITY-STAR tickets to borderpoints are LEGALLY more beneficial even as from price point of view it's the same.

Besides, the large white envelops Wasteels office would write you look more cool than boring pieces of cardboard or the railway :)

The Wasteels in Bratislava is at the railway station, it's just a different office. The price is the same 172 Euro for the round-trip, they accept credit cards.

I did not buy tickets from Wasteels in Bratislava, I bought from a small rural railway office in Sturovo (was closer to my house in Hungary and I was lazy), I got them within 5 minutes and paid with c/c.
_____________________

The tickets issued to borderpoints rather than to stations can save you money and some trouble. Why? Because you can save precisely on the sleeping car supplements. The CIV tickets issued till borderpoints point behind the last station of Vostok-Zapad tariff are the argument the traveler can argue and expect to pay sleeper supplements according MPT/EMPT tariff of SMPS, not the significantly more expensive Vostok-Zapad/TCV. According SMPS "Tariff Handbuch" ("Тарифное руководство") the traveler has to get the bed reservation according the tariff of his goal. Now, let's take the "goal" called Naushki. With a CITY-STAR "Bratislava-Naushki" some Russian ticket agencies will argue, the "goal" of the passenger is to reach the station of Naushki, settle there, get roots, marry a girl or so :) Because the station of Naushki is just a station: you can de-train there and so on. One agency in Moscow, the TSI will issue supplemental MPT tickets to CIV tickets and MPT bed supplement will be issued for the through tariff, but some are reluctant.

The situation will immediately change if you have a CITY-STAR to Naushki(GR) instead of Naushki. There is no physical station called "Naushki(GR)", that is the tariff break-point between РЖД (Russian Rail) and МТЗ (Mongolian Rail), it's a singularity, a single point on the rails which is the same as the border. The station of Naushki is in the tariff a different thing that Naushki(GR): Naushki(GR) is 6 km further from Moscow than Naushki.

At the moment you have the ticket to Naushki(GR) immediately you can argue with right: your goal is somewhere in Mongolia or behind, the Naushki(GR) indicated in your ticket is a point closed to passenger de-raining, you have to stay on the train. That puts you in entirely different legal position, you can demand all your bed reservations even within Russia to be issued according MPT tariff, not the more expensive "Vostok-Zapad".

This is probably what happened with Utti precisely last year. Utti bought the CITY-STAR ticket to Ussuriisk and had supplemental tickets from Ussuriisk to Tumangan (Korea) with single through reservation from Moscow till Tumangan in NKorean sleeping car. That was fine. As he de-trained in Russia earlier, he was surprised he got all his further reservations even ones going back to Moscow according MPT tariff, not Vostok-Zapad and saved quite a bit of money.
Indeed: the Russian ticket agency took his pre-existing CITY-STAR together with his pre-existing supplemental ticket to North Korea as one whole thing and as a proof, his "goal" was Korea. Hence - correctly - they sold him the Irkutsk-Moscow bed reservation as MPT, not "Vostok-Zapad"/TCV.

Sorry for this long rambling... anyway, to summarise: everyone should buy CITY-STAR tickets till "GR" points if possible. On the Far East there are three "GR" points in the tariff of "Vostok-Zapad"/TCV. These are: Naushki(GR), Mandschuria(GR), Tumangan(GR), precisely in that spelling. Don't ask me, why "Наушки" got English spelling and Man Zhou Li got German or why they use Mandschuria(GR) instead of Zabaikalsk(GR) which would be the same. That's how it is there in the book... :-/

Why would like one to get MPT instead of "Vostok-Zapad" bed supplement?

While RZD did raise the prices of Vostok-Zapad and also multipliers for MPT many times, this was not the case with МТЗ, ЗЧ, КЖД. Hence, using CITY-STAR combined with cheap MPT sleeper supplement of МТЗ, ЗЧ, КЖД, УЗ (УЗ did not change the multiplier either!) you still can get the best of both worlds. It is just more tricky.

What I would like to do is to get a CityStar ticket from Bratislava to Naushki or Naushki(Gr) , and combine it with return ticket Naushki or Naushki (Gr) - Beijing and MPT reservations Moscow - Beijing, Beijing - Irkutsk and Irkutsk - Moscow, all MPT ticket and reservations bought in Moscow. Do you maybe have any information about mentioned TSI agency in Moscow? And also information about prices of return ticket Naushki - Beijing or Naushki (Gr) - Beijing (I presume that 20% discount for Russia - China tickets isn't valid for ticket from Naushki (Gr)?), and information for prices of MPT sleeper reservations above.


Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on November 05, 2010, 10:04:27 pm
What I would like to do is to get a CityStar ticket from Bratislava to Naushki or Naushki(Gr) , and combine it with return ticket Naushki or Naushki (Gr) - Beijing and MPT reservations Moscow - Beijing, Beijing - Irkutsk and Irkutsk - Moscow, all MPT ticket and reservations bought in Moscow. 
Issuing of MPT sleepers for East-West ticket (=CityStar) is basically forbidden, because tariff and reservation must be issued using one tariff. The trick with (gr) or things like tickets East-West Mosco-Naushki + MPT Naushki-Suhe-Baator with one reservation Moscow-Suhe-Baator doesn't work. Gyuri_FT (or LXL2 on Thorn) was trying to promote this idea, but some time ago on MZA forum one of the RZD cashiers precisely explained that ticket counters in Russia wouldn't do such trick, unless accidentally mixing up tariffs or not being attentive enough.
Do you maybe have any information about mentioned TSI agency in Moscow?
http://www.timetable.tsi.ru/  Not quite sure how updated are the English part of the website, but you can try using Russian or email them.
And also information about prices of return ticket Naushki - Beijing or Naushki (Gr) - Beijing (I presume that 20% discount for Russia - China tickets isn't valid for ticket from Naushki (Gr)?), and information for prices of MPT sleeper reservations above.
You will definitely not get discount for Naushki(gr). Coming to exact MPT fares, it is tricky since we aren't in possession of all the current multipliers, so the approximation is rough and based on known info:  ticket Naushki-Beijing (app. 90 CHF), sleeper Irkutsk-Beijing (app. 25 CHF), sleeper Moscow-Irkutsk (most expensive is RZD carriages (app. 95 CHF), Chinese or Mongolian are cheaper), Moscow-Beijing should be around 50 CHF.

Anyway, it might be an option just to avoid CityStar at all, especially considering almost certain impossibility to buy MPT reservation to it. So you might just go to Moscow, purchase MPT Moscow-Beijing r/t and that will do it. Also remember about 50% RZD domestic upper berth in "kupe" discount.

Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on November 06, 2010, 07:43:51 pm
Thank you!  :)

I found on this page (http://www.mza.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97:2009-05-04-16-19-19&catid=28:external&Itemid=115 (http://www.mza.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97:2009-05-04-16-19-19&catid=28:external&Itemid=115)), that there is CityStar (or in Russia caled экономные цены) from Russia to Serbia via Chop. I knew there is only CityStar from Serbia to Russia available via Romania or Bulgaria and Romania, not via Chop. Is this a mistake or it is something new?
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on November 06, 2010, 08:30:39 pm
there is CityStar (or in Russia caled экономные цены) from Russia to Serbia via Chop. I knew there is only CityStar from Serbia to Russia available via Romania or Bulgaria and Romania, not via Chop. Is this a mistake or it is something new?
It seems that nothing has changed (RZD website confirms - http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=737) and MZA just mixed up a bit. "Экономные цены" (or CityStar) issued only via Romania/Bulgaria, via Chop it is return discount in connection RZD-ZS. Why MZA tried to put it under "Экономные цены" and together with "и Черногорией (транзитом через Украину, Румынию и Болгарию)"... remains a mystery. Maybe they just accidentally added "via Chop" in a wrong place
Title: City Star Russia and reservations
Post by: rasha on December 04, 2010, 07:07:33 pm
http://www.uic.org/IMG/pdf/rzd_2011_information_from_12_12_10.pdf (http://www.uic.org/IMG/pdf/rzd_2011_information_from_12_12_10.pdf)

I found here that there is going to be a direct sleeping car Irkutsk - Warszawa in summer 2011. Do you have any information about how much will be the reservation cost for this car? And, are there going to be some changes in price from the timetable change on December 12th of CityStar ticket Slovakia - Russia (both via UŽ and PKP-BČ), and in sleeper reservations including ŽSSK-UŽ, ŽSSK-UŽ-RŽD, PKP-BČ-RŽD, UŽ-RŽD and RŽD domestic?
Title: Re: City Star Russia and reservations
Post by: tUt on December 07, 2010, 02:38:52 pm
Do you have any information about how much will be the reservation cost for this car?
We are afraid that at the moment the only thing left is to rely on this year fares info (http://infokolej.pl/printview.php?t=10676&start=0&sid=c0df9306646ed251b00b3a9d47efd5a8), since it's too early to say something about next summer.
And, are there going to be some changes in price from the timetable change on December 12th of CityStar ticket Slovakia - Russia (both via UŽ and PKP-BČ), and in sleeper reservations including ŽSSK-UŽ, ŽSSK-UŽ-RŽD, PKP-BČ-RŽD, UŽ-RŽD and RŽD domestic?
At the moment the only definite thing is that reservations UZ-Europe with East-West tariff stay the same for next year on all the routes excluding UZ-PKP and UZ-DB. Probably similar thing will happen with reservations RZD-Europe, since there were already a number of responses about purchased tickets for dates after 12/12 and no difference in fares spotted, but this info is not confirmed by any RZD docs.
With UŽ-RŽD things are more complicated, because UZ plans to introduce new tariff system for "East-West", if, as we already noted, with ordinary UZ-Europe everything left with almost no changes (besides UZ-PKP and UZ-DB), but with UZ domestic (with East-West) and UZ-other CIS countries (like RZD) nothing is know yet, since those parts are missing (yet?) in the new tariff project. With UZ domestic (with East-West) there are rumors that reservations will be simply issued with a help of standard domestic UZ tariff, while situation with UZ-CIS is unknown yet. Same story with RŽD domestic (with East-West), but, imho, those are already way too expensive, so it will be suicide to raise them again. As well, no info about CityStar yet.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on December 07, 2010, 03:29:08 pm
I meantime I found this:
http://forum.railwayclub.info/index.php?topic=21255.msg229149#msg229149 (http://forum.railwayclub.info/index.php?topic=21255.msg229149#msg229149)
It says that domestic UZ reservation for East-West tariff will be same as for domestic tickets (why RZD is not like UZ ? >:(). But it's not clear what will be with reservations from Ukraine to Russia, and other former USSR states. It also says that CityStar to Slovakia will be 30% cheaper! (hm, only from Ukraine, or also for Russia?).

When you get some new information, please post it here. Thank you!
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on December 07, 2010, 04:09:34 pm
It says that domestic UZ reservation for East-West tariff will be same as for domestic tickets (why RZD is not like UZ ? >:().
Well, we already seen this new project, but it is not yet definite. First of all this new project needs to be approved + even within link you gave it is stated, that formulations in different parts of it are a bit contrary and not clear, so you never know what will be the end result after all.
It also says that CityStar to Slovakia will be 30% cheaper! (hm, only from Ukraine, or also for Russia?)
ZSSK-UZ and ZSSK-RZD aren't codependent, so -30% in ZSSK-UZ doesn't mean yet similar thing with RZD.
When you get some new information, please post it here.
We will try  ;)
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on December 15, 2010, 01:23:34 pm
Recently I looked on this map (http://www.parovoz.com/maps/supermap/supermap.png (http://www.parovoz.com/maps/supermap/supermap.png)), and noticed that Petropavlovsk (Kazakhstan) and the whole route from Cheliabinsk to Omsk via Petropavlovsk belongs to South-Ural railway, which is part of RŽD. After that I had a look on Jizdenka, and Petropavlovsk is shown as Petropavlovsk [27] and Petropavlovsk [20], so it means that station belongs to both RŽD and KTŽ, something like Salzburg to DB and OeBB. Also, on Jizdenka, direct route between Cheliabinsk and Omsk which goes via Petropavlovsk is shown as Russian, so I thought that ŽSSK can issue ticket via that route. The only problem was that route from Topoli (Gr) to Ufa via Penza on which Kiev - Vladivostok and Dnipropetrovsk - Vladisvostok cars go isn't shown neither on jizdenka or wasteels.ro sites. It only showes routes from Topoli (Gr) to Ufa via Saratov. Next I did, I sent an e-mail to ŽSSK, and they answered that route Topoli (Gr) - Penza - Samara - Ufa - Cheliabinsk - Petropavlovsk - Omsk is possible for City Star ticket. So it means ŽSSK has it in their computer (or tariff book).

And I asked on MŽA forum about price of Kiev - Vladivostok T4 reservation - it's 70,83 CHF + VAT if bought in Ukraine (20%). Because it's defined in CHF, not EUR it means that for UZ cars, it's same price for MPGT and Vostok-Zapad. Do you know maybe is the Kiev - Vladivostok car reservable from Europe? Is it in EPA reservation system? It should be train 350LJ, which is shown in Hafas.

Also, the price for City Star SK-RUS changed a little bit. Via Ukraine it's now cheaper, 84 EUR till 1500km in Russia, and 120 EUR up 1500km in Russia. Via Poland and Belarus it's more expensive - 197,2 EUR till 1500km in Russia and 233,2 EUR up 1500km in Russia.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on December 15, 2010, 10:05:20 pm
Petropavlovsk is shown as Petropavlovsk [27] and Petropavlovsk [20], so it means that station belongs to both RŽD and KTŽ, something like Salzburg to DB and OeBB.
Yes, basically transit line on that small part of northern Kazakhstan belongs to RZD, but, nevertheless, all the tickets bought there is payed in tenge and you'll have full scale border crossing, not 'green corridor'.
And I asked on MŽA forum about price of Kiev - Vladivostok T4 reservation - it's 70,83 CHF + VAT if bought in Ukraine (20%). Because it's defined in CHF, not EUR it means that for UZ cars, it's same price for MPGT and Vostok-Zapad.
No, this is a mistake. East-West tariff is in EUR. And according to UZ tariff table the numbers are correct, but the currency is EUR. So the person who advised you that just mixed up CHF with EUR.
It should be train 350LJ, which is shown in Hafas.
It should be in EPA, besides 350 Iv-F.-Kharkiv, 53OJ and 134JI are also seen in Hafas, so there are good chances that UZ gave the details about Kiev/Kharkiv-Vladivostok carriages as well.
Also, the price for City Star SK-RUS changed a little bit. Via Ukraine it's now cheaper, 84 EUR till 1500km in Russia, and 120 EUR up 1500km in Russia.
Good news, thanks for sharing it.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on December 15, 2010, 11:36:33 pm
Yes, basically transit line on that small part of northern Kazakhstan belongs to RZD, but, nevertheless, all the tickets bought there is payed in tenge and you'll have full scale border crossing, not 'green corridor'.
Yes, I know that it's full scale border crossing. But good news for me is that recently Kazakhstan and Serbia signed agreemen about visa free regime, and in few months it will go into effect. So no problems about that for me.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: rasha on January 07, 2011, 06:00:52 pm
Hm, one weird thing I ran on: last January ZSSK told me in an e-mail that Citystar to Russia is valid 2 months, but now, they said it's only one month. It wouldn't be weird if just that, but according to this (http://doc.rzd.ru/isvp/public/doc?STRUCTURE_ID=389&layer_id=3368&refererLayerId=3339&id=3954#4810 (http://doc.rzd.ru/isvp/public/doc?STRUCTURE_ID=389&layer_id=3368&refererLayerId=3339&id=3954#4810)) ticket validity should be 2 months becouse Slovakiа signed that agreement.
Title: Re: Bratislava - St. Petersburg via Ukraine and Moscow
Post by: tUt on January 07, 2011, 07:20:55 pm
Hm, one weird thing I ran on: last January ZSSK told me in an e-mail that Citystar to Russia is valid 2 months, but now, they said it's only one month. It wouldn't be weird if just that, but according to this (http://doc.rzd.ru...) ticket validity should be 2 months becouse Slovakiа signed that agreement.
Well, first of all it's worth to mention that SMPS (in quoted RZD doc - СМПС) it is just convention designed long time ago for so called 'Easter Bloc' and China/Mogolia (organization OSShD/OSJD - Organization for Cooperation of Railways), it is similar to CIV for 'Western Bloc' (organization UIC - International Union of Railways). Tariffs are something secondary to this agreements. TCV, which is now SCIC-NRT, is general tariff for interstate CIV members connection, SMPS doesn't have a unified interstate tariff like SCIC-NRT, but has couple specific tariffs designed for specific purposes - like MPT or interstate tariff between former USSR countries.
While East-West tariff originally designed to connect CIV countries with SMPS countries, thus regulations concerning only SMPS, the ones you quoted above, does not apply here. The confusion might arise since some countries like Slovakia or Czech Republic are members of both, but still ticket ZSSK/CD-RZD will be issued not with help of any tariff 'outgoing' from SMPS convention, but with a help of East-West (actual agreement can be found here - http://www.oebb.at/static/tarife/scic-ewt__besondere_internationale_befoerderungsbedingungen_ost_-_west_/index.html).
As you can see, here (6.1.1) it is specifically stated that: "Die übrigen internationalen Beförderungsausweise gelten einen Monat", but "Für gewisse Tarifangebote, bestimmte Verbindungen oder bestimmte Vertriebskanäle können die BBT eine unterschiedliche Geltungsdauer vorsehen". As result of this last point, in reality some tickets issued with a help of East-West tariff might have different validity than 1 month. For instance CityStar ZSSK-RZD previous years or example from my experience - last time I traveled using East-West tariff ticket Budapest-Chop was valid for 2 month, but ticket Zahony-Chop for same MAV-UZ connection - only 4 days.