Need advice on Europe train ticket

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Hi,
I will be travelling to Europe for 1 month during May. I will be firstly arriving at London on 4 May.

My itinerary would be:
London -> Paris -> Bruges -> Rotterdam -> Kinderdijk->Amsterdam-> Cologne -> Heidelberg -> Black Forest -> Baden- Baden -> Lake Constance -> Munich -> Bavaria (Fussen)->Basel -> Zurich -> Lucerne -> Berne -> Geneva -> Lake Geneva -> Montruex -> Jungfrau -> Lauterbrunnen -> Interlaken -> Zermatt -> Milan -> Verona -> Venice -> Florence -> Pisa -> Rome -> Naples -> Capri -> Rome
 
I need your advice on how to get cheap train ticket for the above route. If the train ticket is too expensive for certain journey, I might consider night bus/coach which would help to save money on accommodation.
As this is my first time travelling to Europe, I am not familiar with the places especially the transportation system. Some travel website mentioned about "seat reservation" and "validate ticket before boarding", can you help to explain on this? Does all train/coach need ticket validation and seat reservation?

Btw, any comments on the route planning above is much welcome and appreciated.
Thanks.
p/s: I will be flying back to London from Rome via Ryanair.

You sure will need a lot of point to point tickets for such itinerary, in some cases maybe even pass would make sense. But lets see...
London -> Paris: in case of train your best shot is to purchase the ticket as early as possible online (eurostar.com or www.tgv-europe.com/en), so you can actually get one way ticket for a bit more than 40 EUR, which is the best price for the route. You can also go with low-cost flight (for instance EasyJet) or bus (http://www.nationalexpress.com/home.aspx), usually it is cheaper than train.
Paris -> Bruges: again, advance purchase online is the best choice since you can get discounted tickets, same tgv-europe website
Bruges -> Rotterdam: not a big choice of discounts for one way travel between Belgium and Netherlands, so www.b-europe.com with 35 EUR tickets or bus www.eurolines.be
Rotterdam -> Kinderdijk->Amsterdam: just purchase your ticket before departure, since in your case it seems no good way to save for Dutch domestic travels. You can also try bus for cheaper fare - http://journeyplanner.9292.nl/Default.aspx
Amsterdam-> Cologne: again bought in advance discounted international ticket is your best choice - either here http://www.nshispeed.nl/en or from German railways website - http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?newrequest=yes&protocol=http:& On both websites tickets start from 19 EUR.
Cologne -> Heidelberg: either purchase in advance discounted Dauer Spezial discounted ticket (from 29 EUR) or use Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket (more info on our Germany page)
Heidelberg -> Black Forest -> Baden- Baden -> Lake Constance:here you use either Baden-Württemberg-Ticket (http://www.bahn.de/i/view/USA/en/prices/germany/laender-ticket.shtml) or just regular ticket, if this cheaper than Baden-Württemberg-Ticket, for short legs.
Lake Constance -> Munich: if you depart from destination around lake which already in Bavaria, then Bayern-Ticket (Bavaria Ticket), if not, then Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket or Dauer Spezial.
Munich -> Bavaria (Fussen): again Bayern-Ticket (Bavaria Ticket)
Bavaria (Fussen)->Basel : purchased in advance international ticket is your cheapest option, but Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket also can be used.
Within Switzeland: if you are lucky Swiss Railways might have period of SuperSaver tickets (http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/sparbillette-faq), thus you get discounted ticket fare for almost any Swiss trips. If not SuperSaver, then regular tickets would be your only choice. You can also go with TCV/SCIC-NRT international ticket purchased in Germany from a ticket counter, so you can use it as a pass, but it will be a bit complicated since you will need to purchase a couple of those like Basel -> Zurich -> Lucerne -> Berne -> Geneva, second Geneva -> Montruex  -> Interlaken etc.
Within Italy: choice here is really simple - either use slower regional trains (tickets are rather cheap and can be purchased any time, even before departure) or purchase in advance discounted ticket on TrenItalia website (www.trenitalia.com). General idea with regional trains in Italy you can see from similar post - http://europetrainsguide.com/forum/index.php/topic,182.msg816.html#msg816

Hi,
Thanks for your prompt reply. I still have some questions.
When train ticket involve one country to another country, does the ticket valid for 1 month? If so, the 1 month validity ticket can be purchased online? Or only can be purchased at ticket counter? When the ticket start to take effect for 1 month validity? From the date of purchase?

For transportation within Switzerland:
According to http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/sparbillette-faq, the SuperSaver ticket only available starting from April. You also mentioned on purchasing TCV/SCIC-NRT international ticket in Germany from a ticket counter, and can use it as a pass. Is that only can be purchased at Germany ticket counter? Can it be purchased online?
For this kind of ticket (TCV/SCIC-NRT international ticket), I will need to purchase 2 separate ticket as following? Will it be valid for 1 month like international ticket?
1) Basel -> Zurich -> Lucerne -> Berne -> Geneva
2) Geneva -> Montruex -> Interlaken -> Zermatt
What about transportation from Zermatt -> Milan ?
Do you think I should purchase Swiss pass?

For Bavaria (Fussen)->Basel : does Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket cover the route? Or I still need to purchase additional ticket?
 
Sorry for bombarding you with all these questions. Really appreciate your help. Thank you so much.

First of all sorry, we skipped this last time

Some travel website mentioned about "seat reservation" and "validate ticket before boarding", can you help to explain on this? Does all train/coach need ticket validation and seat reservation?

... so the answer is that seat reservation usually required for high-speed trains and many international trains, while regional trains usually don't. But in real life everything depends on country, for instance within Germany even high-speed ICE and IC trains doesn't require compulsory seat reservation, same in Switzerland, but in France or Italy high-speed long distance trains (like TGV, EuroStar) do require it.
Ticket validation usually necessary for regional trains, where ticket is issued not for specific train, but for the route, thus you can take any train which covers the route within the validity period of the ticket, sometimes routes are to short or simply no conductor checks your ticket, so validation restricts you using the same ticket couple times. But in most countries it's not in use. The only obvious example where ticket validation is an issue is Italy.

When train ticket involve one country to another country, does the ticket valid for 1 month? If so, the 1 month validity ticket can be purchased online? Or only can be purchased at ticket counter? When the ticket start to take effect for 1 month validity? From the date of purchase?

Validity of the ticket depends on type of tariff it is issued with. Most common European international tariff is TCV/SCIC-NRT, there validity of full fare standard ticket are 1 month and more to it - you can use it as a pass, because stopovers on the route here is allowed. But most of the discounted tickets are issued only for specific train and date, so you can't use other train or make a stopover with such tickets. In some countries (like Italy, France etc.) there is also so called global price tickets, which means railway just puts fixed fare for certain route not bounded with any tariff. Such tickets are also not possible to use as passes.
Most of the tickets sold worthy buying online are either discounted or global price. If you want standard TCV/SCIC-NRT with 1 month validity and possibility to make stopovers then better to purchase it at the counter. Take effect...well, any time you say the starting date should be, so for instance I can visit ticket counter today, but purchase ticket with starting date next month.

Is that only can be purchased at Germany ticket counter? Can it be purchased online? 

Not only in Germany, in Switzeland, Austria, most of the Central and Eastern Europe. But you can't purchase international ticket for domestic use in the country you travel. So if you intend to use TCV/SCIC-NRT in Switzerland, they won't sell it to use there, but offer standard domestic. While buying in Germany for travels in Switzerland is fully ok. And no, such complicated ticket can't be purchased online - only ticket counter. You can actually check out TCV/SCIC-NRT fares for route you are interested here - http://jizdenka.idos.cz/IT.aspx?Lang=69 . Website is Czech, but tariff is same everywhere, so you get an idea what potential TCV/SCIC-NRT ticket would cost you. There you can also check TCV fare for Zermatt-Milan, but for route Visp/Brig-Milan you have a chance to purchase discounted ticket from SBB website - https://www.sbb.ch/mct/wi/shop/b2c/pipSchritt_1.do (from 25 CHF)

Do you think I should purchase Swiss pass?

Probably not, pass is a good option is you travel a lot, thus not one leg at a time, but throughout whole country, so day pass value is less than standard tariff. In your case, you probably plan to stay at actual destination for certain time, thus it increases the number of days you need pass for.

For Bavaria (Fussen)->Basel : does Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket cover the route? Or I still need to purchase additional ticket?

The trick with Basel that it is basically located on the border of three countries, mostly in Switzerland, but it actually has three trains stations - Basel Bad hbf, Basel SBB and Basel SNCF (the later two are actually located at the same building), each of them is counted as domestic station of Germany, Switzerland and France. So it is not a problem at all to use Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket till Basel Bad station (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel_Badischer_Bahnhof), because it is German. If you really want you can even ride Basel-Bad - Basel SBB, chances that someone would be checking tickets on this short leg is minimal. Or you can always get off at Basel-Bad and walk/use city transport to the centre.
 

Hi,

Thank you so much for your reply.

For Italy regional train, do you know where I can get the timetable and fare?
You mentioned that I don't have buy regional train ticket in advance. Does this mean that I can definitely get the ticket even before departure?

For Paris local train including RER train, do i have to purchase in advance?

For Eurolines promo fare, i also have to purchase in advance?


To get around Swiss (e.g.  Zurich -> Lucerne -> Berne -> Geneva ), can I buy international ticket at Italy instead of Germany? Will the tariff still be the same? Is purchase in advance needed for international ticket?
For International ticket, does the single ticket need to involve 2 different countries?


Thanks for helping.

For Italy regional train, do you know where I can get the timetable and fare?

Same TrenItalia website - http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=c79686605528a110VgnVCM1000003f16f90aRCRD  (trains marked "R" or "Regionale Veloc"), but input date today or tomorrow, than it will show you the fare

You mentioned that I don't have buy regional train ticket in advance. Does this mean that I can definitely get the ticket even before departure?

Yes, you can get ticket any time, since it is issued for route, but not any specific train. So you can actually use any regional train to travel the route during the validity period of a ticket. Plus passengers simply can't reserve seats in regional trains, so you just board the train and occupy any seat you like.

For Paris local train including RER train, do i have to purchase in advance?

No, that is suburban lines, so no point.

For Eurolines promo fare, i also have to purchase in advance?

"Eurolines promo" What you meant by that? EuroLines it is bus company. But as rule, any promo tickets, doesn't matter train or bus, sold in limited numbers and mainly in advance purchase required.

To get around Swiss (e.g.  Zurich -> Lucerne -> Berne -> Geneva ), can I buy international ticket at Italy instead of Germany? Will the tariff still be the same? Is purchase in advance needed for international ticket?

No, Italy withdrew from the that all European tariff agreement (TrenItalia actually sold all the international tickets using global price tariff instead of TCV/SCIC-NRT).

For International ticket, does the single ticket need to involve 2 different countries?

Not necessarily. As far as your desired ticket is not sold for domestic route of the country you purchase ticket in it will be sold with international tariff (even if the route you want is domestic for other country). For instance, you purchase ticket Zurich-Geneva at the ticket counter in Munich. Zurich-Geneva is purely Swiss domestic route, but since you want to purchase ticket in Germany, German ticket cashier can't sell it to you with Swiss domestic tariff (they don't know), so they issue it with international TCV/SCIC-NRT tariff, because it is the available international tariff both countries participate in.

Again, thanks for your advice and replies.

Is there cheaper way to travel from London to Cologne in May? I even tried Eurolines, it cost about 45 Euros. I am travelling with my hubby. Two person would cost 90 Euros. Good thing about taking bus is that it arrives Cologne at 9.15am in the next morning if i would take night bus. For train, there is no direct connection.

Between London and Cologne you can actually travel in less than 5 hours by train with one change in Brussels  (EuroStar + ICE), it will cost you from 49 EUR, but only if you purchase in advance. If you want anything cheaper, than take a look at flights - GermanWings, TUIfly, EasyJet etc. (for most dates in May flight tickets are actually cheaper than bus/train options)

Hi,

Thanks again for your reply.

For Germany trip, it is a 5-day trip, from 6 May till 10 May, covering Cologne(start point), Heidelberg, Baden-baden, Black Forest, Lake Constance, Munich, Fussen, Romantic Road and Basel(Swiss). We (2 persons) will be visiting Basel as well on May11. We  need further advice. We are reconsidering the itinerary. Can you advice us on the route order (Cologne->?->?-....->Basel) so that we can save on transportation?

Thanks.

Cologne-Heidelberg: Cologne is in North Rhine-Westphalia, while Heidelberg is in Baden-Württemberg, so it is either purchased in advance 29 EUR per person Dauer Spezial discounted tickets or bought any time 48 EUR for Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket for two (since May 6 is Friday, so you can't use cheaper "Happy Weekend Ticket")
Heidelberg-Baden-Baden: both locations are in Baden-Württemberg region, so Baden-Württemberg-Ticket for 28 EUR is you best choice. Regular one way fare for regional trains is 15.8 EUR, so with Baden-Württemberg-Ticket you actually save a few euro.
Baden-Baden-Black Forest-Lake Constance: assuming you want to ride all the way (Baden-Baden-Offenburg-Singen-Konstanz), again Baden-Württemberg-Ticket is your best choice, since all of the above places are in Baden-Württemberg region.
Lake Constance-Munich: most of the Lake Constance shore is in Baden-Württemberg, so if you start your journey till Munich from there (Konstanz, Friedrichshafen etc.), then obviously you will need Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket (any week day) or Happy Weekend Ticket (if you manage to travel here on Sunday, 8th of May). Other option is to start from somewhere around Lindau, it is the only Lake Constance region which is in Bavaria, so you can actually use 28 EUR Bayern-Ticket (Bavaria-Ticket) instead.
Munich-Fussen: 28 EUR Bayern-Ticket (Bavaria-Ticket) is your best choice here.
Fussen-Romantic Road: as far as you stay in Bavaria region, then Bayern-Ticket (Bavaria-Ticket) it is. But if you plan to involve Baden-Württemberg, then again Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket.
Romantic Road-Basel: depends on your starting point, if you will start in Baden-Württemberg, then Baden-Württemberg-Ticket, if you start in Bavaria, then Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket

Again, thanks for your reply.

I do planned 7-day trip for Switzerland (locations are mentioned in previous email), the super saver ticket will start again from April 29. If I buy half-fare card online (I am not sure if I will be given card serial # though), will I able to get additonal 50% discount on top of the super saver ticket?

What about "Plan + Spar"? How do you think i can make use of it?

Thanks.

If I buy half-fare card online (I am not sure if I will be given card serial # though), will I able to get additonal 50% discount on top of the super saver ticket?

No, usually any type of special offers are not compatible with standard discount cards. Half-fare card from SBB is not an exclusion, so don't count on getting any further discount from already rather cheap SuperSaver fare ticket.

What about "Plan + Spar"? How do you think i can make use of it?

Taking into account "Plan + Spar" is an offer for international tickets from Switzerland, then according to you itinerary you potentially can use it to Italy, but unfortunately it is not offered for SBB-Italy, instead you have already mention discounted tickets (SmarPrice, from 25 CHF - http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reiselust/europareisen/laender/italien/italien-angebote.htm)

Thank you so much for your prompt reply and valuable advices. This really helps a lot.