Questions about the Slovakian CityStar ticket to Russia

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Hello

I would like to go on the Transsiberian from Split (Croatia) to Vladivostok next summer, so after I heard of the amazing offer from Slovakian railways to Russia and started to plan my trip, but I have some questions.

1. I read, that people buy this CityStar ticket in Slovakia but choose to board the train to Moscow in Budapest. Is this okay if there are other trains to Moscow (from Žilina) which do not go through Budapest? It would be great for me since Split (via Zagreb) is better connected with Budapest than it is with Bratislava (or Žilina for that matter).

2. If I go to Bratislava and buy this CityStar ticket, do I simply say that my destination in Russia is Vladivostok, or do I have to name all of the intermediate stations in between?

3. Can I choose one route TO Vladivostok and a different one back FROM it?

This last question is very important to me because I would like to go to Vladivostok like this 

Budapest-Kiev-Moskva-Vladivostok

and return like this

Vladivostok-Irkutsk-Yekaterinburg-Kazan-Kiev-Budapest

so if this is not possible, I have to rethink my plans.

Thank you in advance 

I read, that people buy this CityStar ticket in Slovakia but choose to board the train to Moscow in Budapest. Is this okay if there are other trains to Moscow (from Žilina) which do not go through Budapest? It would be great for me since Split (via Zagreb) is better connected with Budapest than it is with Bratislava (or Žilina for that matter).

You can not use Slovak CityStar from Budapest, since that is the point of the whole ticket to be used for rail travel from destinations in Slovakia directly to Ukraine (via Cierna-Chop). Thus it is not issued like ZSSK-MAV-UZ-RZD, but only ZSSK-UZ-RZD.
The thing you are referring is probably about boarding direct Budapest-Moscow train at the first station your Slovak CityStar will be valid from. In this case it will be Ukrainian Chop, from there route of your CityStar and direct Moscow train is similar. In this case you travel on your own to Chop, while from there you can start using the CityStar. Obviously this means you will need to get separate tickets from Croatia to Hungary and then Chop, but Split-Budapest you will need to go anyway, while Budapest-Chop cost only 17 EUR or 34 EUR return vs. Budapest-Bratislava (direct 16 EUR or even cheaper in case of Budapest-Esztergom-Sturovo-Bratislava or direct bus). At the end you basically have a choice whether to travel via Eastern Hungary or enjoy the ride through the whole Slovakia. The later option might preferably since now there is a direct RZD carriage Bratislava-Moscow everyday.

If I go to Bratislava and buy this CityStar ticket, do I simply say that my destination in Russia is Vladivostok, or do I have to name all of the intermediate stations in between?

The thing is that there are quite a few routes how it is possible to travel from Moscow to Vladivostok, thus in order for ticket cashier to issue CityStar for the correct one, s/he need to enter few key intermediate destinations (including border points), which basically limit the choice of routes. That is why it's a good idea to keep in mind the route you plan to choose, both via Ukraine and Russia
But in some cases CityStar as well allows to travel alternative routes (if available), for instance Bratislava-Cierna can be done either via Zilina or via Zvolen, same thing with Moscow-Sverdlovsk (Yekaterinburg) - either via Kirov or via Kazan. You can see how is it written in the actual ticket here - http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/sk/ticket/20070801_011.jpg , it just says Moskva*Novosibirsk without specifying the intermediate points.

Can I choose one route TO Vladivostok and a different one back FROM it? 

Well, ZSSK website says: "Cesta tam a cesta späť sa môže uskutočniť rôznymi pohraničnými prechodovými bodmi, ktoré sa uvedú na cestovnom lístku pri jeho výdaji". And we never heard from anyone that it doesn't work with CityStar ZSSK-RZD

After checking every possible combination at reiseauskunft.bahn.de from Zagreb to Bratislava, there is no reasonable way for me to be in Bratislava in time for the through train to Moscow without spending an extra night in Bratislava. So I think I will use your advice and travel from Budapest to Chop and then board the direct Moscow train. If the schedule remains the same for next year, I should be in Chop at 01:13, and the train from Bratislava should be there 00:50. Since the bogies are being changed and the train to Moscow resumes from Chop at 04:18 there is plenty of time to even maybe see the whole procedure as it takes place.

Do you think it will be a problem for me to board the train so late in the night? I mean, people will probably be sleeping in the compartment I get so...

Do you know how much would the sleeper supplement cost from Chop to Moscow? From Zilina to Moscow its 24€. And also for the return trip, from Chop to Budapest, how much would it cost (on top of the 17€) to stay in the sleeper wagon?

Regarding alternate routes within Russia, if the ticket cashier enters the stations like in your ticket, does that mean that I could also choose a route Moskva-St.Peterburg-Novosibirsk?

After checking every possible combination at reiseauskunft.bahn.de from Zagreb to Bratislava, there is no reasonable way for me to be in Bratislava in time for the through train to Moscow without spending an extra night in Bratislava.

Yep, it seems a bit tricky to be in Bratislava before 13:57, while starting from Zagreb in the morning. But actually you not necessarily have to spend night in Bratislava, since you can always catch EN 498 till Villach, where to change for Venice-Vienna EN 236. Not very comfortable night, but still change time in Villach is minimal + you can get discounted tickets for both segments Zagreb-Villach and Villach-Vienna, while Vienna-Bratislava is easy and cheap even on the day of travel.

So I think I will use your advice and travel from Budapest to Chop and then board the direct Moscow train.

Actually we just remembered that Chop isn't the only place to catch Bratislava-Moscow carriage. You can do it much more comfortably in Slovenske Nove Mesto. The trick is that this small village is basically an old suburb of Hungarian town Sátoraljaújhely (you can check google maps on your own, but the distance between two railway stations is less than 3 km). And on the contrary there is no problem to catch connection Budapest-Sátoraljaújhely, thus you can use  EN Venice-Budapest from Zagreb and be in Sátoraljaújhely as early as 15:09, while 609 train with Bratislava-Moscow carriage will be there only 21:45. Thus you will even have a chance to from Slovenske Nove Mesto to Kosice, enjoy the town for a few hours and board same 609 there, avoiding hassle on short stop in Slovenske Nove Mesto.

Since the bogies are being changed and the train to Moscow resumes from Chop at 04:18 there is plenty of time to even maybe see the whole procedure as it takes place.

You won't be able to see it (unless you are on that train), since bogie change isn't near train station building.

Do you think it will be a problem for me to board the train so late in the night? I mean, people will probably be sleeping in the compartment I get so...

No, it won't be a problem, since passengers anyway wake up for all the border procedures. Chop itself might not look like very pleasant place, especially old Soviet long-distance/international train station building, but on the contrary it's quite an experience for foreigners 

Do you know how much would the sleeper supplement cost from Chop to Moscow? From Zilina to Moscow its 24€.

If we not mistaking, it should be 19 € , but the problem here is in purchasing it. You might experience trouble buying such reservation in Chop, since the things get done really old fashion way there and no guarantees that ticket cashier will understand/know how to etc.. That is why it might be a good idea to come to Chop with sleeper reservation already in hand.

And also for the return trip, from Chop to Budapest, how much would it cost (on top of the 17€) to stay in the sleeper wagon?

As of this year, 2/2 sleeper for UZ carriage will cost you 14 €, but apparently there are huge changes in UZ international connections, so don't know yet the total end result. For RZD carriages sleeper reservations is much cheaper, as of now 7 €, but 2/3 (and again better to have it before coming to Chop, for instance purchase it in Moscow)

Regarding alternate routes within Russia, if the ticket cashier enters the stations like in your ticket, does that mean that I could also choose a route Moskva-St.Peterburg-Novosibirsk?

Well, we don't see it as a problem, as far as you won't do Moscow-SPb route 4 times via direct line, but go like Slovakia-Moscow-SPb-Vologda-Kirov and further towards Yekaterinburg (or vice versa). The trick with CityStar is that you can't travel any segment more than twice (meaning there and back), in other cases (and as far as your desired transit points are in Slovak system) there shouldn't be any problems with issuing such 'complicated' (in terms of route) ticket.
N.B. But if you seriously thinking of such complications regarding the route, then we would advise you also to check with ZSSK directly, since we aren't them, so just relying on our personal opinion ZSSK are pretty good about answering emails, thus just mail to them with the route you like and ask whether is it ok for ZSSK-RZD CityStar.

Thank you so much for your advice!

Thanks for the alternative via Slovenske Nove Mesto. I checked it out on Google and it's really close. But not practical for me because, I am from Split, and in order to catch the EN Venice-Budapest I would have to wait in Zagreb from 20:30 (last tilting train of the day) to 4:40 and that is too much. So, Chop it is.

I will buy the sleeper reservation Chop-Moskva and back in Bratislava when I buy the CityStar, and if they don't/can't sell it from Chop onward, I will simply buy a sleeper reservation Budapest-Moskva on top of my regular ticket Budapest-Chop from Hungarian railways since I will have the ticket from Chop onward with the CityStar.

The exact route I had in mind, using the same border crossing between Ukraine/Russia - Zernovo, is like this:

Chop - via Kiev - Moskva
Moskva - St. Peterburg
St. Peterburg - Moskva
Moskva - via Yekaterinburg - via Novosibirsk - via Irkutsk - Vladivostok
Vladivostok - Irkutsk
Irkutsk - Yekaterinburg
Yekaterinburg - via Kazan - Volgograd
Volgograd - Kazan
Kazan - Moskva
Moskva - via Kiev - Chop

I chose to go to Volgograd via Kazan, and return to Kazan later, even though it's on the way, because there is no direct train from Volgograd to Kiev via Zernovo unless I go through Kazan, and I really want to visit both towns. If this is not possible using the CityStar, I will buy the domestic russian ticket, but of course, I would like to save money if it is possible.

I am from Split, and in order to catch the EN Venice-Budapest I would have to wait in Zagreb from 20:30 (last tilting train of the day) to 4:40 and that is too much. So, Chop it is.

Well, it's totally your choice But also let us remind you that, as you probably know, during summer there is direct connection Split-Budapest with early arrival to Hungarian capital, so in case you plan your Russian trip during that period you can probably count on it.

I will buy the sleeper reservation Chop-Moskva and back in Bratislava when I buy the CityStar, and if they don't/can't sell it from Chop onward...

Even if ZSSK counter (for whatever reason) won't sell you reservation Chop-Moscow, they are obliged to sell you Kosice/Cierna-Moscow reservation, it will cost maybe a euro or two more, than the one from Chop, but there you have total guarantee

... I will simply buy a sleeper reservation Budapest-Moskva on top of my regular ticket Budapest-Chop from Hungarian railways since I will have the ticket from Chop onward with the CityStar.

Also seems like reasonable idea, you'll have two tickets and one reservation which totally fine in terms of rules, though Russian conductors might be a little surprised by such combination.

The exact route I had in mind, using the same border crossing between Ukraine/Russia - Zernovo, is like this:
Moskva - St. Peterburg
St. Peterburg - Moskva
...
Yekaterinburg - via Kazan - Volgograd
Volgograd - Kazan
Kazan - Moskva

Hmm... we afraid you will have problems with such route, since though you formally don't travel more than twice on each segment, but according to your itinerary you'll transit Moscow and Kazan 4 times. Thus we doubt ZSSK will issue such ticket 

If this is not possible using the CityStar, I will buy the domestic russian ticket, but of course, I would like to save money if it is possible.

In terms of saving money, it's probably not the best option to travel on separate tickets there and back (meaning Kazan-Volgograd). Imho, it will be faster and cheaper simply to travel directly from Volgograd to Ukraine (thus not paying back ticket Volgograd-Kazan and sleeper Kazan-Moscow), while there catch cheap Ukrainian domestic train to Kyiv, from where you can come back to your original route.

Zdravo John 

The border point between UZ and RŽD is Zernovo(Gr). Between Zernovo(Gr) and Vladivostok only available route is via Briansk*Moskva*Novosibirsk*Habarovsk. The route via St. Peterburg is available only with CityStar ticket via PKP and BČ, which is a lot more expensive. In that case border point between BČ and RŽD will be Ezerisce(Gr) and route between Ezerisce(Gr) and Vladivostok will be via St. Peterburg*Moskva*Novosibirsk.

Between Zernovo(Gr) and Vladivostok only available route is via Briansk*Moskva*Novosibirsk*Habarovsk.

Thanks for the info, but that's a pity... Did ZSSK gave any decent explanation about that? Since it seems strange to have the limit for the only route 

Zdravo Rasho

So, tickets for the route Moskva<->St.Peterburg I will have to buy in Moscow. I didn't have too high hopes to include it in the CityStar ticket anyway, but I had to ask The same is with the route Kazan-Volgograd and later Volgograd-Kiev.

However, about the route Yekaterinburg-Kazan, if the only available route between Zernovo(GR) and Vladivostok is as rasha says (Briansk*Moskva*Novosibirsk*Habarovsk) must I return on the Transsiberian route (via Perm and Nizhny Novgorod) or can I choose to travel via Kazan?

Thanks for the info, but that's a pity... Did ZSSK gave any decent explanation about that? Since it seems strange to have the limit for the only route 

ZSSK now issues only electronic tickets, not manual any more. So they can issue ticket only with route which is in computer. But RZD is problem, not ZSSK, because RZD doesn't issue all the routes. Available routes are the one which are on http://passport.uic.asso.fr/login.dhtml or http://jizdenka.idos.cz/IT.aspx?Lang=69, but you cannot go via same station twice in one direction. So, from Zernovo, basically that is the only route available. You can chose for example, to combine different series, and you can get Zernovo(Gr) - Vladivostok via  Briansk*Moskva*Sverdlovsk*Omsk*Krasniarsk*Irkutsk Pass*Chita*Habarovsk or some other combinations, but every possible solution will be the same route, just with different via points listed.

John, you can definitely go Ekaterinburg - Moskva part via Kazan. Also you can go via Yaroslavl. I know cases that CityStar ticket was used on this routes. There arre also direct trains Moskva - Siberia which go via Kazan or Yaroslavl, so no problem. I was also wondering myself, since between Moskva and Novosibirsk there is no through point stated will be possible to go via Penza - Samara - Ufa - Cheliabinsk since once it was also the route of Transsiberian (like the route via Yaroslavl), but I'm not sure about it. I heard also stories, that somebody tried to go via BAM with CityStar (again, because between Novosibirsk and Habarovsk there are not through points stated), but I don't know how it ended since East-West fares for reservations for BAM are not available, only domestic ones.

John, I hope you are aware that domestic Russian reservations are highly expensive (eg. Moskva - Vladivostok 231 EUR T4), but you can save at least for Moskow - Irkutsk part by using BČ coaches on Minsk - Irkutsk train, or direct coach Warszawa - Irkutsk. For example, reservation T4 Moskva - Irkutsk costs 155 EUR, but Minsk - Irkutsk in BČ coach costs 56 EUR, or Warszawa - Irkutsk 54 EUR.

ZSSK now issues only electronic tickets, not manual any more.

As far as we remember, GyuriFT some time ago mentioned that though majority of tickets issued by ZSSK with a help of computer, but you can still ask for the old style handwritten one, it will just take longer to issue (I think he said like 24h in case of Sturovo). Maybe it's not possible anymore, but at least it was.

But RZD is problem, not ZSSK, because RZD doesn't issue all the routes.

Somehow we aren't surprised  Probably they aren't happy a lot, when foreigners squeeze maximum out of tickets like CityStar.

John, you can definitely go Ekaterinburg - Moskva part via Kazan. Also you can go via Yaroslavl. I know cases that CityStar ticket was used on this routes. There arre also direct trains Moskva - Siberia which go via Kazan or Yaroslavl, so no problem. I was also wondering myself, since between Moskva and Novosibirsk there is no through point stated will be possible to go via Penza - Samara - Ufa - Cheliabinsk since once it was also the route of Transsiberian (like the route via Yaroslavl), but I'm not sure about it.

Regarding this issue the solution might be rather simple - both UIC website and Jizdenka along with the route show the number of km, which correspond only to one specific route (for instance "Ekaterinburg*Omsk*Novosibirsk*Irkutsk"=9258km). But in case of actual ticket neither all the stations specified or number of km written, which allows to use alternative routes (like via Kazan, Yaroslavl etc.)

I heard also stories, that somebody tried to go via BAM with CityStar (again, because between Novosibirsk and Habarovsk there are not through points stated), but I don't know how it ended since East-West fares for reservations for BAM are not available, only domestic ones.

Actually in such cases, when you travel within a bit uncommon tourist areas with 'weird' (for local Russian conductors and ticket cashiers) tickets, you might get lucky and they will just issue cheap domestic tariff reservation instead of non-existent for this or that route expensive East-West one. But at the same time, there are also a good chance to get in trouble, since RZD officials for whatever reason might refuse to issue any reservation.

... domestic Russian reservations are highly expensive (eg. Moskva - Vladivostok 231 EUR T4), but you can save at least for Moskow - Irkutsk part by using BČ coaches on Minsk - Irkutsk train, or direct coach Warszawa - Irkutsk. For example, reservation T4 Moskva - Irkutsk costs 155 EUR, but Minsk - Irkutsk in BČ coach costs 56 EUR, or Warszawa - Irkutsk 54 EUR.

Btw, RZD lately became a bit more flexible in terms of domestic fares, thus at the moment you can get 'kupe' for 'Rossiya' (Moscow-Vladivostok) with 50% discount (in case of purchase >31 days in advance), which in total will be even cheaper, than just East-West reservation for the same train and route. Currently such 'unprecedented generosity' works only until Dec.22 for any domestic RZD routes (excluding Kaliningrad trains), but there are good chance RZD decides to continue the offer, at least for off-peak seasons. Thus john_st might actually try count his total plan with 50% RZD domestic tickets, good chances it will beat CityStar+East-West reservations

@rasha - I was aware of the Russian domestic reservation prices, not happy but aware but not that it could be even cheaper with your option via Belarus 

If I went the Belarus route from Split to Moskva, connections with Bratislava are far more simple, but the fact stil remains that the CityStar itself is 80€ more expensive than via Ukraine AND that there is no Belarussian embassy in Croatia! The nearest ones are in Belgrade or Wienna, and the proces takes at least 2 business days (double price) or 5 business days which complicates the whole matter.

Anyways, the timings via Belarus are:

Code: [Select]

Split       17:09   21/07/2012
Budapest    08:25   22/07/2012

Budapest    09:25   22/07/2012   
Bratislava  12:06   22/07/2012 - spend the day in Bratislava


Bratislava  23:02   22/07/2012
Warszawa    07:38   23/07/2012 - spend the day in Warszawa

Warszawa    21:00   23/07/2012
Minsk       08:42   24/07/2012 - spend the day in Minsk

Minsk       22:18   24/07/2012
Moskva      09:20   25/07/2012
and on the return part:

Code: [Select]

Moskva      00:49   17/08/2012
Warszawa    17:43   18/08/2012

Warszawa    20:36   18/08/2012
Bratislava  05:40   19/08/2012

Bratislava  05:53   19/08/2012
Budapest    08:40   19/08/2012 - spend the day in Budapest

Budapest    17:05   19/08/2012
Split       08:39   20/08/2012

And the timings via Ukraine are:

Code: [Select]

Split       17:09   21/07/2012
Budapest    08:25   22/07/2012

Budapest    09:25   22/07/2012   
Bratislava  12:06   22/07/2012

Bratislava  13:57   22/07/2012
Moskva      10:58   24/07/2012
and on the return part:

Code: [Select]

Moskva          23:44   17/08/2012
Sl. Nove Mesto  06:44   19/08/2012

30minute walk from Slovenske Nove Mesto to Satoraljaujhely

Satoraljaujhely 07:47   19/08/2012
Budapest        12:00   19/08/2012

Budapest        17:05   19/08/2012
Split           08:39   20/08/2012
But here is my problem: when you say BČ coaches, does that mean that I must travel from Minsk to Irkutsk on a direct train (thursday/saturday) or can I come from Moskva to Minsk, and then continue from Moskva to Irkutsk on a diferent train? If I have to take the direct train, than this is no good for me, since I would like to spend a few days in Moskva AND St. Peterburg before going to Vladivostok.

@tUt - Thank you for that 50% information, but does that apply only to "whole" tickets (ticket + reservation) bought in Russia, or also just for reservations bought anywhere? If the reservations are also discounted, then this is excellent news! If not, since I can't (at least I think I can't) buy Russian domestic tickets outside of Russia.

Also, something tells me that this "promotion" will only last from August 31st till December 22. Why? Because not so many tourists can travel in September, October and November, and it will stop just a few days before Gregorian calendar Christmass and of course the New Year.

Regarding BAM, I thought of going from Vladivostok to Irkutsk via BAM railway, but it takes 2 days (40hours) longer, so I would have to choose between the BAM route or visiting Kazan and Volgograd.

Regarding http://passport.uic.asso.fr/login.dhtml, the site requires a username and password to login.

@tUt - Yes, Gyuri mentioned that, but in meantime ZSSK said they don't issue manual ticket's anymore since they don't have tariff books anymore, only computer.

@John - actually, from December 2010 CityStar ZSSK-RŽD via UZ is 120,0 EUR, and via PKP-BČ is 233,2 EUR. We will see if something changes from December 2011.

You cannot take the direct train Budapest/Bratislava - Warszawa since it goes via ČD. The CityStar via ČD is not possible. Currently the only passenger operating border point between ZSSK and PKP is Skalite(Gr). Unfortunately train Keszthely - Budapest - Krakow which used to go in summer last years via Plavec(Gr) doesn't operate, and will not operate this summer. So in case going via Skalite(Gr) from Bratislava, you will have to change trains in Zilina and Zwardon, and to spend a night in Katowice, and catch a Praha - Moskva (or Praha - St. Peterburg direct car) train in early morning in Katowice. Or you can continue from Katowice to Warsaw, and catch there a train to Moskva, Minsk, St. Peterburg or Irkutsk.

Unfortunately the 50% discount is only for domestic tickets, and as I red on russian forum it will not bi valid in summer 2012.

Regarding train Minsk - Irkutsk, you cannot buy reservation for Moskva - Irkutsk on that train, but you can buy reservation Minsk - Irkutsk and board in Moscow, or you can buy reservation Irkutsk - Minsk, and leave the train in Moscow, or for example in Yekaterinburg. The only problem is that that train goes through Moscow in the middle of the night.

Sadly, this option via Belarus seems more complicated than the savings around it. Just the CityStar is almost twice as expensive as the Ukrainian option.

And even if it was the same, I would have to board the train Moscow-Irkutsk at 03:10 in the morning and then arrive at Irkutsk at 20:22 which means my entire day has been spent and I have to pay for an extra night for accomodation if I want to continue to Vladivostok, or to remain in Irkutsk one extra day to see everything I intended.

And on top of all that, I must go via Skalite which means paying another night of accomodation.

It would be nice to visit Warszawa and Minsk, but - Ukraine is the only real option here.

Thank you for that 50% information, but does that apply only to "whole" tickets (ticket + reservation) bought in Russia, or also just for reservations bought anywhere?

50% off for the 'whole' domestic ticket. In Russia (as well as in Ukraine, Belarus etc.) ticket and reservation in domestic connections are basically 'inseparable' and even printed on one form together ( http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ru/ticket%2Btimetable/20060915_Moskva_SPB_108_kl.jpg ). Thus it's basically a deal that goes 'in total' and definitely has nothing to do with either East-West or MPT reservations.

...since I can't (at least I think I can't) buy Russian domestic tickets outside of Russia.

Actually you can, it is easily done via RZD website with no commission whatsoever. The only thing you need is bank card with 3D Secure (other tend not to work with their system). Also there are a lot of agencies that sell same tickets with a small commission (usually 200-300 RUB per ticket), but at the same time accept all the cards. So I guess you can pay extra 300 RUB to save like 10000 from Moscow-Vladivistok ticket 

Regarding http://passport.uic.asso.fr/login.dhtml, the site requires a username and password to login.

see http://europetrainsguide.com/forum/index.php/topic,443.msg1446.html#msg1446

Unfortunately the 50% discount is only for domestic tickets, and as I red on russian forum it will not bi valid in summer 2012.

...something tells me that this "promotion" will only last from August 31st till December 22.

Well, it definitely hard to think that RZD will have it for the peak season (like Christmas/New Year period or summer months). But we would expect it to be back like from late January till April (or, if really, lucky May), maybe with some break for Russian holidays (like Feb 23, March 8 and Easter), but still. At least last year, as far as we remember, RZD did have another similar offer during late winter-spring. So in case of late April or May, imho, it can be almost as pleasant to make such trip + definitely less crowded. But if 50% discount is not offered anymore, then you can still always use CityStar or MPT tricks.