Europe in June for family of four

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Hello everyone,
OK so I am a newbie but I sure hope someone can help us out so here goes  We are a family of two adults and two kids ages 10 & 7 travelling to Europe June 16th - Aug 2nd. I would like to purchase point to point tickets for our train travel before we leave the USA. Here is our itinerary: Arr Zurich, Nuremberg, Oberaudorf, Hallstatt, Bratislava, Pecs, Budapest, fly to Pisa then train to Piombino (Elba), Levanto, (San Remo, Menton, Nice or Aix not sure but 2 nights in one of these on our way to Paris, any recommendations for these 2 nights would be quite helpful) Paris, Zurich. I was thinking we could take the TGV from south of France to Paris then Paris to Zurich. How can I book all of these before we go? Thank you for any and all replies 

Hi,

Judging from your itinerary and number of passengers (2adults+2children) it definitely seems like a smart choice to go with point-to-point, especially since in many cases you can take advantage of really cheap group tickets, but let's go step by step:
Zurich-Nurnberg: here you have two major options. Easiest one will be just to purchase in advance discounted international tickets  Zurich-Nuremberg (from 39 EUR per person, German Railways website). Or you can use a bit different way, get Swiss domestic ticket from Zurich to a place called Romanshorn (full fare is 28 CHF per person, but there might be discounted SBB SuperSaver tickets available for your dates). From Romanshorn you can get a ferry over Boden lake to German Friedrichshafen, journey over the lake is quite nice during the summer. While from from Friedrichshafen to Nurnberg you can already take advantage of DB group tickets, either Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket (48 EUR for all 4) on weekdays, Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket (40 EUR for all 4) on weekends. Or alternatively on weekdays you also can first purchase Friedrichshafen-Lindau (Lindau) ticket for 11 EUR (for all 4) and then already from Lindau Bavaria group ticket (Bayern-Ticket) for 29 EUR (for all 4). All of the group tickets can be purchased just before departure, thus no need to purchase them in advance.
Total travel time Friedrichshafen to Nurnberg depends on connection and varies between 3:30 to 5 hours (with at least one change).
Nuremberg-Oberaudorf: basically just one option - above mentioned Bavaria group ticket (29 EUR for all 4)
Oberaudorf-Hallstatt: again easy and cheap, since Oberaudorf is just few km from Austrian Kufstein, while in Austria they have a similar group ticket (called Einfach-Raus-Ticket), thus for 28 EUR all 4 travel all the way to Hallstatt with a couple of changes. And again no need to purchase it in advance, since it's sold anytime for the same fare.
Hallstatt-Bratislava: same Einfach-Raus-Ticket will serve you here again, but this time you'll need to go Hallstatt-Wien-Wolfsthal (check google maps for the last one). The trick is to maximize your travel with Einfach-Raus-Ticket, thus go as close as possible to Slovak border, and mentioned Wolfsthal is just few km from Slovakia and even more, from there you can catch suburban bus to Bratislava, which cost just 1,5 EUR per adult or 0,75 EUR for children. As result the whole route Hallstatt-Bratislava will cost all 4 just 32,5 EUR (28+2*1,5+2*0,75)
Bratislava-Budapest-Pecs: well, again two major options: a) easy, but more expensive is just buy in Bratislava direct ticket Bratislava-Budapest-Pecs return (specifically return, since it gets you 60% discount), it will cost 38 EUR per person and allow. You'll use it Bratislava-Budapest-Pecs-Budapest, while return leg Budapest-Bratislava will be left unused; b) catch domestic train Bratislava-Komarno (5,25 EUR adult or half price children <15), then just cross the bridge to Hungarian town Komarom (it's like 20 min walk from Slovak train station to Hungarian one), then just catch already Hungarian domestic train to Pecs (at least one change and from 4660 HUF per person). Same trick with crossing the border by foot over the bridge can be done in Sturovo/Esztergom, ticket Bratislava-Sturovo cost from 6,33 EUR, while Esztergon-Pecs with change in Budapest from 4660 HUF. Your return Pecs-Budapest segment depends on each option you'll prefer from the above (either return part of the international ticket Bratislava-Pecs or just one-way domestic Hungarian - from 3950 HUF).
Pisa-Piombino: easy and cheap, standard full fare ticket cost just 8,2 EUR, travel time is just one and a half hour. And no need to worry about purchasing tickets in advance, you can just do it 5 min. before departure.
Piombino-Levanto: pretty much same thing, full fare regional train ticket is just 12,7 EUR. If you can do the journey like a 30 min. faster, then you can opt for InterCity, but it's not really worth it, since you'll pay more, but win almost nothing in time.
Levanto-San Remo: again, regional train full fare ticket is just 16,1 EUR.
For the continuation of trip to France you just need to purchase domestic Italian ticket till last station (Ventimiglia), while already when there international ticket for segment Ventimiglia-Menton or Nice, respectively 2,3 EUR or 7 EUR

South France-Paris-Zurich: TGV is your option here, no doubts. You can (and need) to purchase discounted ticket for both legs in advance via www.tgv-europe.com website (remember to input France as ticket collection country, since in case you choose overseas destination, it will redirect you to an agency website). Also you can check http://www.idtgv.com/en/book for South France-Paris segment.

p.s. it's all a bit a lot of info, thus we encourage you just go step-by-step checking everything yourself. And if you have any questions left, just come and ask. But generally, the only trips you actually need to book in advance is South France-Paris and Paris-Zurich, while with the rest of your itinerary you can manage everything already on spot and at the same time pay less in total.

Dear tUt,
Thank you so much for your help. I feel that I am ready to break away from the Eurail Pass and confidently buy point to point. Could you tell me a little more about my last two routes? It seems that I can now buy an IDTGV ticket for us from Nice to Paris. Do you know anything about the childrens seating? How do I book it and is it meant for kids ages 7 & 10? Also the difference between 1st and 2nd is 239 Euro vs 279 Euro for the four of us. Is the extra 40 Euro for 1st class worth it in the regular or kids seating areas? The TGV from Paris to Zurich is not yet available. Is www.TGV-europe.com the correct site for both of these routes?
Thanks again for all your help and if your ever in Monterey CA I would be happy to help you with any info and tilt a beer as well
By the way I have not been able to check prices or book any of the first few routes yet but I think I have to be within 3 months of my departure.

It seems that I can now buy an IDTGV ticket for us from Nice to Paris.

Yep, IDTGV tickets are sold quite far in advance, but actually it's not very necessary to purchase them now for late July. Since there are almost a certain chance that tgv-europe website selling tickets for regular TGV (max.92 days in advance) will have something better. Also it is totally possible to expect some additional promo campaigns for both IDTGV and regular TGV, those will allow you save even more.

Do you know anything about the childrens seating? How do I book it and is it meant for kids ages 7 & 10?

Well, all the available info can be found here. And, as you can see, IDTGV doesn't offer any child fares for >4, while with regular TGV there is a  50% discount for children >4<12 years old. But the problem is that all of the above concerns only full fare tickets, thus with discounted Prem's it doesn't work, for instance if discounted promo ticket cost 25 EUR children <12 won't pay 12,5 EUR, unfortunately. As result you either choose 4 discounted tickets or standard, but with children discount. In most cases of in advance purchase first option turns out to be cheaper in total.

Is the extra 40 Euro for 1st class worth it in the regular or kids seating areas?

It's a bit difficult to guess which type of EMU will be in service at the moment (it can be Duplex, regular South-East TGV etc.), but generally the difference is that 2nd class has 2+2 seats (something like this or this), while 1st class is 2+1 (like this or this) + certain additional services.

The TGV from Paris to Zurich is not yet available. Is www.TGV-europe.com the correct site for both of these routes?...By the way I have not been able to check prices or book any of the first few routes yet but I think I have to be within 3 months of my departure

As we already noted above, there is time limit for tickets sale (majority of trains <92 days), thus it's just too early for your dates, but you can always try the farthest dates available today, check fares on those dates and at the end can pretty expect that when the time comes for your dates, you'll see almost identical picture.

...if your ever in Monterey CA I would be happy to help you with any info and tilt a beer as well

Thanks, will try to keep in mind. Who knows, maybe one day there will be major North America coast to coast rail expedition

Thank you for all the great information. You have truly helped us and we appreciate it very much. I have purchase tickets from Zurich to Nuremberg for 78 Euro and Nuremberg to Oberaudorf for 49 Euro  My flight from Budapest to Pisa was cancelled so we are now flying into Rome and we need to take a train from Rome to Piombino July 13th. Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you again
Chris

...we need to take a train from Rome to Piombino July 13th. Do you have any suggestions?

Imho, it doesn't really make sense to bother with any tickets in advance. The thing is that ticket for regional train Rome Termini-Piombino cost just 14,35 EUR per person, can be purchased for this fare any time.
And you will have an option of quite a few connections per day. The only thing is that Piombino isn't on the main line, thus you'll need to change in Campiglia Marittima. Rome-Campiglia by regional trains take around 2:40-2:50 hours (depending on connection), while Campiglia-Piombino is just 16-20 min (sometimes it's train, but sometimes it's bus as a substitution, 14.35 EUR ticket already includes Campiglia Marittima-Piombino no matter whether it's bus or train)

In case you really want to safe like 30min.-1 hour, then it's also possible to purchase in advance discounted ticket for InterCity or FrecciaBianca trains for leg Rome-Campiglia Marittima, it starts from 9 EUR, but the such promo tickets aren't exchangeable or refundable, thus you basically expected to use specific train (unlike with regional train ticket, which can be used for any connection during validity period)

OK, I am getting a little nervous that I found some decent TGV fares on tgv-europe website but I am trying to hold out I found Nice to Paris on TGV July 28th leaving 12:34 arriving 18:15 for 138 Euro. "Upper deck, facing or family seating" but not sure if this is good. I also found Paris to Zurich on TGV Lyria August 1st leaving 16:23 arriving 20:26 for 164 Euro also upper deck, facing or family seating which is a little late for arrival but if we save alot then it is worth it. I think they are both nonstop but not sure. I tried plugging in some earlier dates to fall within the 92 day window but I did not see any cheaper fares. Maybe I should remain calm and wait until April 24th to check the Nice-Paris trip and the 28th to check the Paris Zurich trip?.?.?

Is upper deck seating nicer than lower deck?

Can you tell me what "family seating' is? I read somewhere that Idtgv and other trains have actual family seating areas but I am not sure what that is or how to book it if it is worth it I assume it is for little children but perhaps still a good option for us?

I put France in as my ticket collection country. Would I get the tickets by checking in at the Nice station? Would I also get the next leg there as well?

So these are the last two legs of our trip and I am trying to get the best bang for my buck as I made a mistake and bought my Nurmberg to Oberaudorf tickets for 49 Euro instead of just getting the "Bavaria group ticket" for 29 Euro like you told me to.  

Thanks again for all your help
Chris

I found Nice to Paris on TGV July 28th leaving 12:34 arriving 18:15 for 138 Euro.

Well, it's not a real bargain (since even today there are 25 EUR tickets Nice-Paris in early July, thus <92 days), but at the same time the total is still ok.

I also found Paris to Zurich on TGV Lyria August 1st leaving 16:23 arriving 20:26 for 164 Euro

That's a already a bit better deal. On a few dates before July 12 (like June 19, June 28, July 11) there are tickets for as low as 25 euro (per passenger), but mostly for the earliest 6am train. And yes, it's direct TGV, so no need to change.

Is upper deck seating nicer than lower deck?

It's obviously nicer in terms of view, since you have a better overview from higher position, but at the same time I would say it's a bit less space (meaning mainly when you walk around upper deck), but when you sit it's ok.

Can you tell me what "family seating' is? I read somewhere that Idtgv and other trains have actual family seating areas but I am not sure what that is or how to book it if it is worth it I assume it is for little children but perhaps still a good option for us?

"The TGV Family areas have four seats face-to-face separated from the rest of the coach" and here you can see the picture for TGV Lyria

I put France in as my ticket collection country. Would I get the tickets by checking in at the Nice station? Would I also get the next leg there as well?

Well, here you need to understand the idea behind tickets collection in general. What exactly you put when website asks about "Choose how to collect your ticket"? Since in some case (like Nice-Ville and Paris-Zurich) you can actually get eTicket and print it yourself at home, in other cases you can pick up ticket from SNCF ticket machine as well as get it from the ticket counter, another - by mail etc. So we encourage you first to read this discussion (http://europetrainsguide.com/forum/index.php/topic,476.msg1702.html#msg1702), so you would just stay on a safe side and trouble later with your ticket retrieval

Well, I checked the fares again today and it went up a little. I did plug in the Paris - Zurich trip but I left it at 4 passengers not 2 adults and 2 children. The fare was 100 Euro (25 Euro per adult) as the adult fares were less than the childs??? Anyway I went ahead and tried to buy 4 adult tickets but it would not let me when I plugged in their ages. Can the kids travel on "adult" tickets? If so, do I plug in earlier birthdates to make them adults or am I asking for trouble? I just can't seem to find the 25 Euro tickets

The fare is still 164 Euro for the Paris - Zurich leg and the Nice - Paris leg went up to 186 Euro, but I think I will hold out and wait for the 92 day window to open. Sorry if I am being a little repetetive and undecided but I am a little tired in the evenings and this is the only time I can really work on our trip

Finally what really gave me a sense of urgency was that when I looked up the same routes a few weeks earlier some of them were sold out!

Would it make sense to try to book at 12:01 AM France time on exactly 92 days out? I assume this would be my best chance at the best price

Thanks again and have a great day.
Chris

The fare was 100 Euro (25 Euro per adult) as the adult fares were less than the childs???

It happens sometimes, the thing behind is that 25 EUR ticket is a discounted promo offer per passenger, but when you enter 'children' (along with age) system automatically calculates 'child fare' instead of cheaper promo, even if the later is still available.

Can the kids travel on "adult" tickets?

Yep, why not? Doing vice versa (like 'adults' traveling on 'child' fare) is obviously impossible, but in your case don't see any reason to worry about 4 adult tickets instead of 2 adults+2 children. And yes, our guess that in practice you just enter minimal adult age. Even if for some reason conductor will ask you about 'adult' tickets for children (but honestly can imagine why, maybe besides some kind of curiosity from his side), then you can always simply say that you didn't understood the SNCF system, meaning you've asked for 4 tickets and it gave it like this. 

Would it make sense to try to book at 12:01 AM France time on exactly 92 days out? I assume this would be my best chance at the best price

First of all, with Nice-Paris you can as well play 4 adults thing, thus getting 25 EUR per passenger tickets. Second, just as an example, right now 25 EUR tickets available not just for July 12 (last day), but also for two previous ones (July 11 & 10), not for all the departures, bus still. Third, obviously the earlier you buy the better chances you have, so it does make sense to try as soon as new travel day will be available for sale. But honestly not sure whether new travel day is being released like at 12:01am with SNCF (it might be also morning like 8am), somehow such type of info wasn't essential to find out, thus we will try to check it today (meaning at what time tickets for July 13 will be available). 

Hello again,
I was able to get the TGV from Paris to Zurich Aug 1st for 25 Euro per person (4 adults) so that is great . I have the tickets printed out and as you mentioned I should not worry about the kids travelling on adult tickets .

Now I can't seem to find any deals for the earlier trip July 28th Nice to Paris. I think I am right on the 92 day mark checking at 16:30 our time which should be April 27th France time. Ideally we would leave Nice between 10:00 and 14:00. Am I putting my information in wrong? I am only looking at tgveurope.com and I am plugging in 4 adults, 2 adults 2 kids, direct, non direct etc... The best price I can find is 206 Euro leaving at 13:34. Yesterday this same trip was 186 Euro. Can you guide me to the right website or tell what to do next? This is my "last' purchase and then I can finally rest until we leave.

Thank you again and by the way I went back a day or two and still the same or more expensive fares!

Chris

Am I putting my information in wrong?

Nope, seems that you just will need to wait a bit more. Looks like the system releasing not from 00:01am, but later and according to 'Low Fare' price calendar

at this moment (3:30 am April 27 in France) last date showing up is July 26 (in theory in a few hours same 'low fare' calendar already should include July 27). And, as you can see, for earlier date there are ticket for <206 euro, both overnight and daytime trains.
Obviously we can't promise you anything, but from what we (as well as you) can see now, it's suggesting that cheaper tickets are still will be offered.

Oh Well,
The 92  day window has opened and 206 Euro is the best fare I could find leaving at 13:34 July 28th Nice to Paris. I did see 128 Euro but that is an overnight arriving the next morning at 7:00. Is there anything else I should check or is the 206 Euro about what I can expect. I went to tgv-europe.
Chris

Is there anything else I should check or is the 206 Euro about what I can expect.

At the moment it is cheapest fare. The problem here is in Prem's (=promo) tickets for adults, they are quite expensive - 64 euro per person, while SNCF usually start such promo tickets from 25 euro, but somehow neither when we first checked, nor now they aren't on sale. And it's hard to believe that they somehow were sold out already 
Anyway, there is a minimal chance that SNCF will announce another sale or promo campaign and current Prem's fare will drop for certain departures, but waiting might be a risky strategy, since closer to the date the higher fare will get, especially during summer. And if sale doesn't happen or happen but not the departure you need, then you'll end up with a need to buy even more expensive tickets.
Sorry if we mislead you, somehow there was a feeling that cheaper ticket will be on sale at around 92 days mark...

p.s. btw, just in case you can also take a look at flights (don't now whether you have something against, but still), for instance EasyJet company have rather ok fare on Nice-Paris route (for the afternoon July 28 it's around 250 euro for all, but for morning flight is much cheaper etc.)