Krakow to Ljubljana

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Hi
Firstly, I'm very pleased to have stumbled across this forum.
I am planning a rail trip from Krakow to Ljubljana via Vienna in September.  I gather from other posts that the cheapest way is to buy point to point ticket for stations within each country.  However I'm finding it difficult to find a definitive map with a route that allows me to identify the various border stations to check timetables and prices.  We would also like to stop off in Vienna for a few days so wonder if there is any ticket that allows us to break the journey or if we would have to buy two tickets to travel through Austria.
I also notice that on the Polrail website they ask for the ages of passengers. Do they actually give a discount to youths or seniors from other, or non European, countries?
Thank you in advance for any information you can give me to help plan my itinerary.

I gather from other posts that the cheapest way is to buy point to point ticket for stations within each country.

Well, it kind of depends on what type of case you have. Sometimes it's cheaper to buy in advance discounted international ticket (sold in limited quantity per departure, but fare is really cheap), sometimes indeed it's cheaper to "break" tickets via border stations. 

We would also like to stop off in Vienna for a few days so wonder if there is any ticket that allows us to break the journey or if we would have to buy two tickets to travel through Austria.

If you purchase standard international ticket (SCIC-NRT tariff) Krakow-Ljubljana via Vienna it will be valid for 15 days and allow unlimited number of stopovers, however price of such ticket is enormously high (almost 140 euro per passengers). That is why it makes sense to choose different way and buy couple tickets for separate legs of your journey.
Option A: you can purchase in advance discounted tickets for daytime or overnight train to Vienna (seats from 29 euro, couchettes 39 euro, sleepers 59 euro), and then another discounted ticket from Vienna to Ljubljana (from 29 euro), thus in total you will pay as low as 58 euro for the entire trip (Krakow-Vienna-Ljubljana). However bit of a problem here is that on the first leg (Krakow (or other destination in Poland) - Vienna) discounted tickets can't be bought online via official Polish Railways (PKP) website, while once you will be already in Poland to visit ticket counter they probably will be already sold out. With Vienna to Ljubljana everything is much simpler - these tickets sold online via Austrian Railways (OeBB) website and we even have a step by step guide on how to purchase tickets via OeBB website
Option B: don't bother with discounted tickets Poland-Austria and just travel with changes. For instance rather cheap option would be to catch a bus from Krakow to small border town Cieszyn (2:30-3 hours & 20 polish zloty), then walk to Czech part of the town (less than 2km, you can check it yourself on google maps) and catch Czech domestic train till Brno (btw, nice town to stop for couple hours) or Breclav (both are roughly 3 hours away and max. 11 euro for the ticket), while from Brno you can get direct train to Vienna for as low as 9 euro (if bought in advance via Czech Railways eShop).
Option C: avoid going Czech Republic at all and travel via Slovakia. With this plan you can even avoid any in advance ticket purchase and simply buy everything before departure. Route will be Krakow-Bielsko Biala-Zwardon-Skalite-Zilina-Bratislava-Vienna, for Krakow to Bielsko Biala better to use bus, while afterward train with changes in Zwardon-Zilina and Bratislava. Total price for the entire journey will be about 30 euro

Anyways, we suggest you to look at rail network (and usual) maps of Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia & Austria, see yourself all the point mentioned above and then make a choice which option might be of interest to you

I also notice that on the Polrail website they ask for the ages of passengers. Do they actually give a discount to youths or seniors from other, or non European, countries?

First all of all, Polrail is not an rail company, it's just an agency which resells tickets with commission. Those guys just use the fact that Polish Railways doesn't sell yet all the types of tickets online and offer their resellers service. We usually don't recommend using agencies, simply because there aren't always reliable + always charge more for the ticket. Second, in some cases age does matter,  but it usually happens with standard fare (=already very expensive) tickets

Yes, I agree, travel via Cieszyn - Cesky Tesin is brilliant idea. It's quite fast and one of cheapest if you've managed to get ticket from Czech Republic to Wien in advance.

and catch Czech domestic train till Brno (btw, nice town to stop for couple hours) or Breclav (both are roughly 3 hours away and max. 11 euro for the ticket), while from Brno you can get direct train to Vienna for as low as 9 euro (if bought in advance via Czech Railways eShop).

Combining domestic ticket to Brno and get separate ticket Brno -Wien ticket doesn't makes much sense.

Little bit cheaper and simpler is just buy via CD eShop just the ticket Cesky Tesin - Wien in advance, it costs 19 EUR.

and then another discounted ticket from Vienna to Ljubljana (from 29 euro)

well, it's optimal option.

Just it worth to know that in cases when it's not avaialble (when such tickets are sold out or if you want to go in time, when price 29EUR is not proposed) - it's still often possible to find other option to make section Wien - Ljubljana cheaper (many of them are based on possibility to get ticket Wien - Graz in only 9 EUR or Wien - Spielfeld Strass in 14 EUR if you buy in advance).

Little bit cheaper and simpler is just buy via CD eShop just the ticket Cesky Tesin - Wien in advance, it costs 19 EUR.

Simpler, yes, you are right. However from previous experience it was more difficult to get 19 euro discounted tickets (Moravian-Silesian Region to Wien) compared to 9 euro ones from Brno, quota was bigger for the later + more trains, but maybe nowadays it's not that big of an issue anymore.
Cheaper? Not really. Since those 290/306 CZK for Cesky Tesin-Brno/Breclav ticket is absolute maximum price (when buying ticket at the ticket counter before departure), while in case SEL has a chance to buy Czech domestic ticket in advance, then ticket fare can go down to 199/243 CZK + 251 CZK (≈ 9 euro) for Brno-Vienna vs. 530 CZK (≈ 19 euro) for Cesky Tesin-Vienna promo offer, thus win with Czech domestic tickets can be up to 80 CZK

Just it worth to know that in cases when it's not avaialble (when such tickets are sold out or if you want to go in time, when price 29EUR is not proposed) - it's still often possible to find other option to make section Wien - Ljubljana cheaper (many of them are based on possibility to get ticket Wien - Graz in only 9 EUR or Wien - Spielfeld Strass in 14 EUR if you buy in advance).

True, although cross-border fares from Austria to Slovenia aren't cheap and there is really no way to cross cheaper (unless hitchhiking)

Thank you tUt for your immediate & detailed reply, and Maxy, for your comments. Option C seems to be the best outcome of the three.

However now that you have shown that there are alternate routes perhaps I should have been more exact with our plans and stop making assumptions - my apologies.

We will be travelling in Sept and our final destination from Krakow is near Celj, Slovenia but I had assumed that we would have to travel to Ljubljana to get there.  We intend to take the journey at a leisurely pace (at least one stop for a few days). Our only reason for stopping off in Vienna was to revisit the city, as our previous stay was in winter and I had assumed that it was on the easiest & most direct route. 

We have never been to Slovakia and I am thinking that perhaps we should stop off somewhere along the line if we accept Option C.  (Recommendations appreciated).  Another route I gather is via Budapest.  Another city we’d love to visit, as once again we have only been there in mid-winter, but not necessary. 

So without, I hope, taxing you too much, would you recommend another more direct route that avoids going through Austria? However we are also happy to use bus connections or walk the extra km if that helps at border crossings - but no hitch hiking!

I am also sorting out the next stage of our journey NW or W from Ljubljana but I’ll leave that for another time...

Thank you both so much for sharing your knowledge.

We will be travelling in Sept and our final destination from Krakow is near Celj, Slovenia but I had assumed that we would have to travel to Ljubljana to get there.

Ljubljana is a detour actually, since in both cases (whether you go to Slovenia from Vienna or Hungary) you will be coming from north-east, thus Celje will be earlier than Ljubljana.

Our only reason for stopping off in Vienna was to revisit the city, as our previous stay was in winter and I had assumed that it was on the easiest & most direct route.

Well, if Vienna is not must stop destination, then it changes a lot of things. First of all it means that you can count on cheap Budapest-Ljubljana daytime train (discounted tickets which can be bought from Hungarian Railways website start from only 19 euro, while before departure you'll pay 39 euro), which actually goes through Celje (dep. Budapest 13:35 - arr. to Celje 20:03)

We have never been to Slovakia and I am thinking that perhaps we should stop off somewhere along the line if we accept Option C.  (Recommendations appreciated).

Again, if you not necessarily need to travel through Austria, then actually you not necessarily need to take Krakow-Bielsko Biala-Zwardon-Skalite-Zilina-Bratislava (where Zilina can perhaps be a stop for couple hours or Bratislava even for an entire day). In case you like nature or some old towns/castles you can choose to travel for instance Krakow-Zakopane-Stara Lubovna/Bardejov(-Kezmarok-Levoca-Spisske Podhradie)-Presov-Kosice-Budapest (obviously some of the middle points here can be thrown out or changed) or see some central Slovakia (Banská Bystrica, Levice etc.)

Another route I gather is via Budapest.  Another city we’d love to visit, as once again we have only been there in mid-winter, but not necessary.

Yes, Hungary (and Budapest) is basically a must either way (whether you travel through western, central or eastern Slovakia), because mentioned above direct train to Slovenia departs from Budapest

So without, I hope, taxing you too much, would you recommend another more direct route that avoids going through Austria? However we are also happy to use bus connections or walk the extra km if that helps at border crossings - but no hitch hiking!

Well, as you can already get from previous comments, another more direct route is Krakow-Slovakia-Hungary-Celje. And you can either choose to stop somewhere in Slovakia (see above) or perhaps just take direct bus Krakow-Budapest, it's relatively fast and cheap.

I am also sorting out the next stage of our journey NW or W from Ljubljana but I’ll leave that for another time...

We are here to help fellow travelers, so you are always welcome to ask for advice 

First of all it means that you can count on cheap Budapest-Ljubljana daytime train (discounted tickets which can be bought from Hungarian Railways website start from only 19 euro, while before departure you'll pay 39 euro), which actually goes through Celje (dep. Budapest 13:35 - arr. to Celje 20:03)

as fair as I know the purchase of SparSchiene 19 EUR ticket Budapest - Ljulbjana is not implemented on MAV website (probably because it's quite new deal, in previous seasons kinda-SparSchiene tickets from Hungary to Slovenia didn't existed)

First of all it means that you can count on cheap Budapest-Ljubljana daytime train (discounted tickets which can be bought from Hungarian Railways website start from only 19 euro, while before departure you'll pay 39 euro), which actually goes through Celje (dep. Budapest 13:35 - arr. to Celje 20:03)

as fair as I know the purchase of SparSchiene 19 EUR ticket Budapest - Ljulbjana is not implemented on MAV website (probably because it's quite new deal, in previous seasons kinda-SparSchiene tickets from Hungary to Slovenia didn't existed)

However SEL should keep in mind that with entering Budapest-Celje route sparschiene discounted tickets will not be shown, thus it makes sense just to buy Budapest-Ljubljana and get off earlier in Celje

I am now also researching places to visit in Slovakia en route to Budapest.  So much to take in!

In case you like nature or some old towns/castles you can choose to travel for instance Krakow-Zakopane-Stara Lubovna/Bardejov(-Kezmarok-Levoca-Spisske Podhradie)-Presov-Kosice-Budapest (obviously some of the middle points here can be thrown out or changed) or see some central Slovakia (Banská Bystrica, Levice etc.)

Yes.  That sounds good.  I have checked the train maps and Slovakrail web site and places like St Lubovna and Barejov appear to be at the end of branch lines and not on a direct route to Kosice?  Therefore if I want to go to Bardejov I would have to take a return journey from say Kysak?

Validity of Trains Tickets in Slovakia: tickets (one way & return) for distances <100 km are valid on the day shown on them and on the next day till 4 a.m. Tickets for distances >100 km are valid on the day shown on them and on the next day till 12 p.m. Return tickets for distances >100 km are valid until the 24th hour of 3rd day of their validity

Therefore if I decide to stay over en route for a night or two I would have to split the journey and buy two tickets?

Can I buy a ticket through to Budapest at any of the smaller stations if I have to split the journey or wait til I get to a larger terminal like Kosice?

First of all it means that you can count on cheap Budapest-Ljubljana daytime train (discounted tickets which can be bought from Hungarian Railways website start from only 19 euro, while before departure you'll pay 39 euro), which actually goes through Celje (dep. Budapest 13:35 - arr. to Celje 20:03)

Booking period on website:
Maximum 3 months before the date of travel
Minimum the day of travel - (but they may have run out of the cheaper bargain tickets by then?!)

The only other part of the journey I’m still unsure of is getting from Krakow-Zakopane and over the border into Slovakia.  Bus or train? 

Many thanks again, your knowledge is invaluable!

I have checked the train maps and Slovakrail web site and places like St Lubovna and Barejov appear to be at the end of branch lines and not on a direct route to Kosice?  Therefore if I want to go to Bardejov I would have to take a return journey from say Kysak?

Here it makes sense to combine rail transport and buses. In Slovakia buses run pretty well, so you can easily create an itinerary and logistically cover everything nicely (e.g. from Stara Lubovna to Bardejov by bus and then from there to Presov/Kosice by train and so on). Slovaks actually have very nice website for checking all the schedules (train, buses) - cp.atlas.sk - it will show you everything you need (although obviously for September it's too early yet, but in August you can easily see all the buses available for the exact dates you need)
Big question is that in case you do decide to see some places in Eastern Slovakia, you have to choose whether to go "northern" route (Poland-Stara Lubovna-Bardejov-Presov-Kosice) or opt for "southern" (Poland-Poprad-Levoca-Spisske Pohradie-Presov-Kosice). While from Kosice to Budapest it's fairly easy: morning or evening direct train (three and half hours & 20 euro for the ticket even if you buy before departure)

The only other part of the journey I’m still unsure of is getting from Krakow-Zakopane and over the border into Slovakia.  Bus or train?

From Krakow to Zakopane it's easy peasy - either direct train (schedule) or bus (multiple carriers), both option will cost you 14-20 PLN, no need to buy in advance. From Zakopane to Slovakia during the season (lasts till October) it's also not a problem, since there you have direct buses few times per day (22 PLN for the ticket to Poprad). But in case you decide to go for "northern" route in Slovakia (thus Stara Lubovna-Bardejov), then it might make sense to think about skipping Zakopane at all and from Krakow going directly to Piwniczna-Zdrój/Łomnica-Zdrój with further idea of catching Slovak domestic bus from Mnisek nad Popradem to Stara Lubovna

Therefore if I decide to stay over en route for a night or two I would have to split the journey and buy two tickets?

Well, here will work the same trick with different tickets. From Poland to Slovakia you'll come by bus, then either combination of train+bus (with Slovak domestic ticket, which aren't expensive), perhaps a night in like Kosice, while from Kosice to Budapest you already get international ticket. Imho, its totally doable to start in the morning from Krakow, during the day see some places and arrive to Presov/Kosice for the overnight stay

Can I buy a ticket through to Budapest at any of the smaller stations if I have to split the journey or wait til I get to a larger terminal like Kosice?

Yep, you can, in Slovakia it's done using pc program, so any station with pc can sell you international ticket to Budapest, but it doesn't make sense to buy ticket like Poprad-Budapest or Bardejov-Budapest, much cheaper would be to go with Slovak domestic tickets and then international ticket from Kosice 

Booking period on website:
Maximum 3 months before the date of travel
Minimum the day of travel - (but they may have run out of the cheaper bargain tickets by then?!)

It's 60 days and yep, bargain tickets will definitely be sold out on the day of travel, so hardly you can count on buying 19 euro ticket while already in Budapest. Also would like to remind you that such discounted tickets aren't exchangeable or refundable (sort of the price you pay for bargain fare)

I’m going to run out of thank yous soon tUt!  Having spent an inordinate amount of time researching your recommended bus/train connections (yes great Slovak website) and places to visit I finally decided to take the ‘northern’ route.  However I haven't investigated going via Piwiczna-Zdroj/Lomnica-Zdroj yet as there were so many good reviews for travelling via Zakopane.  Anyway at some unearthly hour of the morning I realised that we would want to leave our luggage somewhere while we explore.  We travel light, very light by most standards, but I do not want to take it with me on any short excursions.  Do the smaller railway stations have secure lockers?  Any suggestions?

Having spent an inordinate amount of time researching your recommended bus/train connections (yes great Slovak website) and places to visit I finally decided to take the ‘northern’ route.  However I haven't investigated going via Piwiczna-Zdroj/Lomnica-Zdroj yet as there were so many good reviews for travelling via Zakopane.

In case you prefer to see Stara Lubovna and Bardejov, but still travel via Zakopane is not a problem at all, can be easily accomplished. Just that your route will be slightly more curvy compared to Krakow-Piwiczna-Zdroj/Lomnica-Zdroj.
De-facto even here you can have two possible options:
a) "lazy": e.g. Krakow-Zakopane (bus, 6:40-8:40 or earlier, 15 PLN), then Zakopane-Poprad (bus, 9:00-10:53, 22 PLN), basically nothing to see in Poprad, so makes sense to continue further almost immediately, thus Poprad-Kezmarok (either bus 11:25-11:55 or train 11:46-12:12, both options will cost you around 1 euro), short walk around the town and continue with Kezmarok-Stara Lubovna (bus, 13:38-14:23) or alternatively you can simply skip Kezmarok entirely and just go with the same train (dep. Poprad 11:46) to Stara Lubovna (arr.13:00), ticket fares are 1.5-2 euro. Next few hours can be reserved to see the castle, town, maybe have lunch and afterward catch bus to Bardejov (16:00-16:58, around 3 euro for the ticket). And finally another couple hours for Bardejov and catch bus/train to Presov or even Kosice (depends on where you want to spend the night)
b) "no Poprad needed" version: Krakow-Zakopane the same as above, while with Zakopane-Poprad bus you actually don't go all the way to Poprad, but get off half an hour earlier in the mountains (Tatranska Lomnica), once again makes sense to check google maps, which will help you to visualize geography of the region. If you lucky and bus from Zakopane arrive early you might be able to catch direct bus to Kezmarok (dep. Tatranska Lomnica 10:20 - arr. 10:48), if not, than take a walk in the nature and travel by train with change in Studený Potok (11:43-12:12 arr. to Kezmarok). After Kezmarok it can be the same itinerary as above.

Obviously all the schedules and prices are for current day, but hardly there will be major changes in September, so you can more or less count on the same buses & trains (unless you travel on weekends, when bus/local train schedules tend to differ from ones on weekdays)

Anyway at some unearthly hour of the morning I realised that we would want to leave our luggage somewhere while we explore.  We travel light, very light by most standards, but I do not want to take it with me on any short excursions.  Do the smaller railway stations have secure lockers?  Any suggestions?

Well, with train stations you have a list of Slovak stations where baggage lockers are available (unfortunately, as you can see yourself, it's mainly major stations). With buses situation might be even more difficult, because not everywhere you would even have a building of bus station. However, in smaller towns you can usually try just asking around. Even if the cashier/caretaker at the station full refuse to allow you leave the baggage in their room, then perhaps makes sense simply go to the nearest bar/restaurant, order a beer and ask the owners if maybe they can watch you things for a few hours (obviously this will work only if you don't plan to leave something very valuable)

Hi again tUt and thank you again. 
I think I have all the info I need for that leg of our journey - but I know where to come back if I need to.    The list of stations to store luggage is great and works in well with our plans.
I will start a new post for the next part of our journey.
SEL

I’m having to make a couple of changes to the itinerary to meet up with a friend who is visiting Croatia at the beginning of October.  We have a few days when we leave Ljubljana at the end of September (when we had originally planned take the train to Salzburg).  Our choice as I see it is:

1) Return by the same route to Salzburg/Ljubljana and then onto Croatia. 
2) Visit Salzburg at the beginning of the trip.  I know, not the best planning but we have no time constraints then.  We can fly into Munich, train to Salzburg, stay a few days and then train to Krakow.

I estimate the return Ljubljana/Salzburg journey is about the same length of time as Salzburg/Krakow so there is no particular advantage either way that I can see.  Are there any cheap day fares from Salzburg to Krakow?  Which alternative would you recommend?  Or it might be cheaper to fly.

We can spend about a week/10days before flying up to the UK from Croatia, but I notice that there are no trains to Dubrovnik.  I have to admit I haven't done much homework on the country yet.  A lot depends on where we are going to meet our friend who is arriving from Prague (probably by plane).

I estimate the return Ljubljana/Salzburg journey is about the same length of time as Salzburg/Krakow so there is no particular advantage either way that I can see.

Salzburg to Ljubljana by train is slightly more than 4 hours, while with Salzburg to Krakow the fastest you can do is about 9 hours, but some connections are 10 and even 11 hours 

Are there any cheap day fares from Salzburg to Krakow?  Which alternative would you recommend?

Straight forward no, but with some tariff tricks you can get a pretty good overall price. Basically there are three options here:
a) travel from Salzburg to Czech Republic (via Linz, Summerau), then through Czech Republic to already mentioned Cesky Tesin. Salzburg-Summerau (last Austrian station) discounted tickets start from only 9 euro per passenger (if bought in advance via OeBB website), Czech domestic ticket isn't very expensive either (for instance you can get day long pass for the entire Czech rail network for only 550 CZK), while Cieszyn to Kraków we already discussed earlier. Or, as an alternative, just go with discounted international ticket Prague to Krakow for 19 euro (Leo Express or Czech Railways)
b) travel from Salzburg to Vienna and then to Slovakia with the idea to enter Poland via Zilina-Zwardon. Here entire Austrian leg can cost you as low as 19 euro, Slovak 11 euro, while Polish one we already discussed.
c) travel from Salzburg back to Bavaria and only then to Czech Republic with Bavaria-Bohemia ticket (valid all the way from Salzburg to Czech Plzen) and then domestic Czech ticket to Cesky Tesin or mentioned above discounted international Prague to Krakow.

Options A and C can allow a sort of overnight journey, so you can actually save on hotel
 

Or it might be cheaper to fly.

You can try searching, but it's unlikely that you can find anything cheaper than train (Bavaria & Austria aren't connected to Poland by low-cost airlines) options.

Which alternative would you recommend?

There is no definite answer here. Salzburg to Ljubljana is pretty good travel time + not very expensive if you get in advance discounted 9 euro tickets Salzburg-Villach, but with Salzburg to Krakow (no matter which route you take) you can actually make stopovers and see some places in between.

...but I notice that there are no trains to Dubrovnik.

Long time ago Dubrovnik actual had railway (coming from Sarajevo), but eventually it was closed and pulled apart. So nowadays farthest you can get by rail is Split (trains from Zagreb), and then continue by bus or ferry to Dubrovnik. Also, in case you have time, it's very nice journey simply to take ferry all the way from Rijeka to Dubrovnik, this way you'll sail throughout the entire Croatian costline