Europe Trains Guide Forum
General discussion => Train fares and tariffs => Topic started by: rasha on April 01, 2011, 06:02:01 pm
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Recently i found tariff tables for sleeping car reservations of BČ, RŽD and UZ. It is for the year 2010, but in 2011 prices remain same. Here it is:
BČ: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Feheroroszorszag_BC/BC%20halokocsiarak.xls (http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Feheroroszorszag_BC/BC%20halokocsiarak.xls)
RŽD: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Oroszorszag_RZD/RZD%20h%E1l%F3kocsi%E1rak%202010.xls (http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Oroszorszag_RZD/RZD%20h%E1l%F3kocsi%E1rak%202010.xls)
UZ: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Ukrajna_UZ/ukran%20halokocsiarak.xls (http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Ukrajna_UZ/ukran%20halokocsiarak.xls)
RŽD table shows international, interstate (exSSSR) and domestic prices, BČ and UZ show only international (BČ not complete). For UZ interstate and domestic prices you can see here: http://zakon1.rada.gov.ua/cgi-bin/laws/main.cgi?nreg=z0806-08 (http://zakon1.rada.gov.ua/cgi-bin/laws/main.cgi?nreg=z0806-08) (Ukrainian language only, add 20% to showed price on ukrainan website due to a taxes).
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Thanks, this is very interesting.
If the prices are correct, it would mean that for some domestic Russian trains it is cheaper to purchase ticket & reservation abroad using East-West tariff than to buy them in Russia.
For example, SV ticket for train 001 Krasnaya Strela from St Peterburg to Moscow bought online on rzd.ru costs 5531 RUB, which is approx. 137 EUR. First class ticket in East West tariff for the same route costs 39.90 EUR (according to www.jizdenka.cz) + reservation 82 EUR = 121.90 EUR.
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Rasha, thanx for the links. dijszabas is good resource, though sometimes troubling with updates, but anyway useful.
First class ticket in East West tariff for the same route costs 39.90 EUR (according to www.jizdenka.cz)
Not quite, CD sells tickets for Russia with 30% discount from the original East-West fare, so jizdenka shows the fare with already included discount. Actual 1st class ticket (East-West) costs a bit more.
If the prices are correct, it would mean that for some domestic Russian trains it is cheaper to purchase ticket & reservation abroad using East-West tariff than to buy them in Russia.
You might be surprised, but actually it used to be a whole business for certain people - purchasing Russian domestic tickets in Europe (ticket usually in Slovakia or Czech Republic, while reservation anywhere with access to Russian system - usually Switzerland, Germany etc.). Even with this guys "agency" commission, mailing expenses etc. such set of ticket+reservation used to be cheaper in many cases than Russian domestic tickets with domestic tariff. But like 2 years ago RZD had enough of it and raised dramatically East-West reservations for Russian domestic trains, as result making such trick almost useful in most cases. For instance, for high-speed daytime Moscow-St.Petersburg (ER200) reservation fare changed from 4 EUR to 62 EUR, for most long-distance in app. two times etc.
So nowadays actual bargain can be only MPT with relatively cheap reservations, but here also certain limitations are present.
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So nowadays actual bargain can be only MPT with relatively cheap reservations, but here also certain limitations are present.
And using UZ, BČ and KZH cars on domestic Russian trips Citystar. There are some good news about using BČ cars because from the CIS states timetable change on late May trains 144/143 Brest - Novosibirsk - Brest and 64/63 Minsk - Irkutsk - Minsk will go via Moskva Kurskaya*Nizhny Novgorod. There's only problem because you cannot buy reservation for inland RŽD connection in BČ car via EPA or in Russia for East-West tariff. But you can buy for example Irkutsk - Orscha (first Belarus station), and leave the train in Moscow. You will pay 56 EUR for reservation Irkutsk - Orscha in BČ car instead of 156 EUR for reservation Irkutsk - Moskva in RŽD car. But question is what will happen in opposite direction if you have reservation Orscha - Irkutsk and you want to board the train in Moscow. Reservations for UZ cars cannot be bought via EPA (exept from Mocow to Ukraine), but can be bought via fax reservation at DB, but requires few days to be confirmed. That way inland RŽD connections in UZ cars are available (but sometimes declined, there's no real rule), and also since there is East-West reservations tariff table for plackartniy, 3rd class it should be also available. That way, for example reservations Harkov - Vladivostok in platskartniy will be only 46 EUR, or Kiev - Vladivostok in kupe 85 EUR.
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Thanks tUt and rasha for interesting information.
Just out of my curiosity, is it possible to book also VIP compartments in Krasnaya Strela using East-West tarrif? The domestic price as quoted on rzd.ru is over 16 000 RUB (415 EUR). Now that would be awesome if the E-W tarriff does not differentiate between the categories SV and SV-VIP :)
That way, for example reservations Harkov - Vladivostok in platskartniy will be only 46 EUR, or Kiev - Vladivostok in kupe 85 EUR.
Rasha, you have some very interesting info here. However, I could not find the connection Kiev (Harkov) - Vladivostok in UZ reservations tables you provided. Therefore, my question is: Is it possible to get somewhere the definite list of trains/direct sleeping cars in former CIS countries on which is possible to purchase reservations using East-West tariff?
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Rasha, you have some very interesting info here. However, I could not find the connection Kiev (Harkov) - Vladivostok in UZ reservations tables you provided. Therefore, my question is: Is it possible to get somewhere the definite list of trains/direct sleeping cars in former CIS countries on which is possible to purchase reservations using East-West tariff?
For UZ interstate and domestic prices you can see here: http://zakon1.rada.gov.ua/cgi-bin/laws/main.cgi?nreg=z0806-08 (http://zakon1.rada.gov.ua/cgi-bin/laws/main.cgi?nreg=z0806-08) (Ukrainian language only, add 20% to showed price on ukrainan website due to a taxes).
On this link at the table III. Вартість плацкарти в міжнародному сполученні Схід-Захід
у спальних вагонах України ( в євро без ПДВ) you see the prices in EUR for reservations per kilometer for UZ cars. You just have to add 20% because it is the price without VAT. You just then need to find out distance beetween stations which you can easily do at http://www.mza.ru/?exp=1 (http://www.mza.ru/?exp=1).
There are reservation lists of RŽD (http://www.uic.org/IMG/pdf/rzd_2011_information_-_2.pdf (http://www.uic.org/IMG/pdf/rzd_2011_information_-_2.pdf)) and BČ (http://www.uic.org/IMG/pdf/s_12.2010.pdf (http://www.uic.org/IMG/pdf/s_12.2010.pdf)) and trains on those lists are certanly bookable, but in practice there are a lot of more bookable trains. UZ don't provide reservation lists, because their system is not connected to European EPA, but UZ reservations can be booked at DB via FAX.
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So nowadays actual bargain can be only MPT with relatively cheap reservations, but here also certain limitations are present.
And using UZ, BČ and KZH cars on domestic Russian trips Citystar.
Definitely, but the only thing is that there is extremely low number of non-RZD carriages for RZD domestic use.
There's only problem because you cannot buy reservation for inland RŽD connection in BČ car via EPA or in Russia for East-West tariff. But you can buy for example Irkutsk - Orscha (first Belarus station), and leave the train in Moscow. You will pay 56 EUR for reservation Irkutsk - Orscha in BČ car instead of 156 EUR for reservation Irkutsk - Moskva in RŽD car.
Similar cool trick here is also use of Irkutsk/Novosibirsk etc.-Terespol reservations (basically it frees you from BČ carriages, thus can use relatively low populated RZD RIC instead). RZD-BČ reservations with East-West is actually more expensive than RZD-PKP, so Novosibirsk-Brest reservation is more expensive than Novosibirsk-Terespol etc. But if you original idea is Moscow, than, I guess, there just a need to look which one will be cheaper (depending on your starting destination) - X-Orsha (with BČ) or X-Terespol (with RZD).
But question is what will happen in opposite direction if you have reservation Orscha - Irkutsk and you want to board the train in Moscow.
Imho, nothing. You have all the necessary travel docs (ticket+reservation for certain route) and it doesn't matter whether you board the train at the station listed as starting (in your case Orsha) or any other throughout the actual route (for instance Moscow). Similar question was many times discussed about domestic tickets and boarding on station later than originating. Some time ago passenger was suppose to send free telegram and notify about late boarding, but later this rule was dropped, so now you can board the train at any station of the route.
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Just out of my curiosity, is it possible to book also VIP compartments in Krasnaya Strela using East-West tarrif? The domestic price as quoted on rzd.ru is over 16 000 RUB (415 EUR). Now that would be awesome if the E-W tarriff does not differentiate between the categories SV and SV-VIP
Well, international tariff is only written for 1st and 2nd class, so with ticket it is not a problem, but with reservation there is one, in tariff book you can find only 1/2 and 1/1, both, as you can guess, applicable only to standard SV.
In theory, from tariff point of view SV and SV-VIP are different only by the sleeper reservation fare, but in practice we doubt that RZD actually cared to "invent" non domestic international MTP/East-West fares for reservations "above" 1/1. And on the contrary, you can't have two 1/1's - one for standard single SV and one for SV-Vip, so as result, probably it is impossible to purchase international tariff reservation for SV-Vip. But maybe some non-professional cashier might actually try to sell you domestic reservation to international MPT or East-West ticket in such case, at least we heard about such practice time to time concerning 'kupe'.
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Similar cool trick here is also use of Irkutsk/Novosibirsk etc.-Terespol reservations (basically it frees you from BČ carriages, thus can use relatively low populated RZD RIC instead). RZD-BČ reservations with East-West is actually more expensive than RZD-PKP, so Novosibirsk-Brest reservation is more expensive than Novosibirsk-Terespol etc. But if you original idea is Moscow, than, I guess, there just a need to look which one will be cheaper (depending on your starting destination) - X-Orsha (with BČ) or X-Terespol (with RZD).
I think that BČ T4 is slightly cheaper then RŽD T3 in this case. Example Irkutsk - Minsk BČ T4 - 56 EUR, Irkutsk - Warszawa RŽD T3 63 EUR. And in my expirience it's more comfortable to use wide profile kupe (T4) carriages then narrow RIC T3.
Imho, nothing. You have all the necessary travel docs (ticket+reservation for certain route) and it doesn't matter whether you board the train at the station listed as starting (in your case Orsha) or any other throughout the actual route (for instance Moscow). Similar question was many times discussed about domestic tickets and boarding on station later than originating. Some time ago passenger was suppose to send free telegram and notify about late boarding, but later this rule was dropped, so now you can board the train at any station of the route.
Well, there could be one problem with this in CIS countries because in lot of cases tickets at en-route stations are sold only few hours before departure and without berth number specified, only carriage. Provodnik showes free places to them. So if you board later your berth can be occupied.
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And in my expirience it's more comfortable to use wide profile kupe (T4) carriages then narrow RIC T3.
Yepp, many people still prefer old type Ammendorf so-called "chocolate" carriages instead of small RIC compartments. But some also not very happy to have 4 people (often changing many times on long-distance routes) at the same compartment. Anyway, it is a matter of preferences.
there could be one problem with this in CIS countries because in lot of cases tickets at en-route stations are sold only few hours before departure and without berth number specified, only carriage. Provodnik showes free places to them. So if you board later your berth can be occupied.
Hmm... we think it is rather old problem, nowadays almost all the tickets are with seat numbers. So it is just a matter of some ticket selling limitations (after train crosses the border, departs from origin station etc.), but when you already do a have a chance to buy the ticket (limitations are lifted), then it will be with exact seat typed. But anyway, system will not allow sale of more than 18, 36, 54 etc. tickets for one carriage, thus the most horrible thing that can happen is that you(or provodnik) will have to ask the passenger on your seat/bed to move to the other available in the same carriage.
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BČ: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Feheroroszorszag_BC/BC%20halokocsiarak.xls (http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Feheroroszorszag_BC/BC%20halokocsiarak.xls)
RŽD: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Oroszorszag_RZD/RZD%20h%E1l%F3kocsi%E1rak%202010.xls (http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Oroszorszag_RZD/RZD%20h%E1l%F3kocsi%E1rak%202010.xls)
UZ: http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Ukrajna_UZ/ukran%20halokocsiarak.xls[/url (http://dijszabas.uw.hu/dijszabas/download.php?fname=./Ukrajna_UZ/ukran%20halokocsiarak.xls)
Sadly, my pc does not recognise those file names, any idea on how to proceed?
Do BC and RZD publish MPT and MGPT fares somewhere?
Jizdenka states a certain amount for Polish-Russian journeys (yet not fixed, as Terespol-Naushki is cheaper than Naushki-Vladivistok). Is this the East-West Fare? Any discount available in Polish-Russian trafic (such as City Star)?
Same question on jizdenka quotes for Belarus-Russia very long-distance trafic? Is this TCV, Domestic fare or MPT?
Thx for any tips ;-)
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Sadly, my pc does not recognise those file names, any idea on how to proceed?
We emailed you those files in a bit more standard excel format, so check the mail you entered when registered for our forum
Do BC and RZD publish MPT and MGPT fares somewhere?
Well, MGPT fares you can actually check on BC and RZD websites (and even purchase tickets), since both websites offer access to "Ekspress" system. With MPT it is a bit more complicated, since neither BC or RZD publish there tariff tables. With RZD you can actually check real time MPT fares, but the service is available either for cashiers (thus you need to go to the ticket counter yourself and ask) or on paid website, thus no free online source.
But a little out of date tariffs can be seen here - http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=5125 (click on magnifying glass sign to the left from trains listed and you can see all the details, unfortunately in Russian, but google translator might help)
Jizdenka states a certain amount for Polish-Russian journeys (yet not fixed, as Terespol-Naushki is cheaper than Naushki-Vladivistok). Is this the East-West Fare? Any discount available in Polish-Russian trafic (such as City Star)? Same question on jizdenka quotes for Belarus-Russia very long-distance trafic? Is this TCV, Domestic fare or MPT?
Any ticket purchased in Poland or Czech Republic for international routes PKP/CD-BC/RZD or domestic/interstate routes like BC-RZD or just domestic RZD would be issued only with East-West tariff, so no choice here. The only way to buy tickets (domestic fare) within Russia is either at the ticket counters in Russia or online from RZD/agency websites. MPT tickets from BC/RZD can be bought only at the ticket counter in Russia/Belarus, no online option.
And no, there is no CityStar from Poland or Czech Republic to Russia or Belarus. CityStars to Russia available only from Slovakia, Serbia and Bulgaria. With PKP-RZD the only discounts are for groups >6 and children (more here http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=737)
The only convenience with Czech CD, is that they sell tickets to and within Russia with 30% from standard East-West fare, so jiizdenka shows already fare with discount.
as Terespol-Naushki is cheaper than Naushki-Vladivistok - what exactly you meant by this?
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Do BC and RZD publish MPT and MGPT fares somewhere?
Well, MGPT fares you can actually check on BC and RZD websites (and even purchase tickets), since both websites offer access to "Ekspress" system.
Yes, should have noticed this myself...
Interestingly, RZD website, english version, as last updated, now shows 2 different fares for journeys to North Korea via Khasan/Tumangan: North Korean and Russian sleeping-cars. Seems very recent.
It also seems that there are RZD sleeping-cars Novossibirsk-Beijing running via Naushki, on supposedly Chinese-fitted Train 003/004.
With MPT it is a bit more complicated, since neither BC or RZD publish there tariff tables. With RZD you can actually check real time MPT fares, but the service is available either for cashiers (thus you need to go to the ticket counter yourself and ask) or on paid website, thus no free online source.
Paid website, what do you exactly mean?
If MPT fares are not publically avialable while only a sample of MGPT fares is advertised, comparing fare options isn't gonna be that easy.
And no, there is no CityStar from Poland or Czech Republic to Russia or Belarus. CityStars to Russia available only from Slovakia, Serbia and Bulgaria. With PKP-RZD the only discounts are for groups >6 and children (more here http://pass.rzd.ru/isvp/public/pass?STRUCTURE_ID=737)
The only convenience with Czech CD, is that they sell tickets to and within Russia with 30% from standard East-West fare, so jiizdenka shows already fare with discount.
A real pity then, as Sparpreis 25 is a bit too much rigid.
So, I can get 30% off the full fare Frankfurt (O) (Gr) - Naushki (Gr) f I buy such ticket from CD?
Is City-Star Slovakia-Russia also valid via Warsaw? or Shall I only travel via Chop (and then Bryansk) ?
And I actually meant Terespol-Naushki and Terespol-Vladivostok, sorry for this late-evening confusion ;-)
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Interestingly, RZD website, english version, as last updated, now shows 2 different fares for journeys to North Korea via Khasan/Tumangan: North Korean and Russian sleeping-cars. Seems very recent.
Not that recent, there are two Russian carriages running till Tumangan with "Rossiya" #1/2 train since Dec. 2010 (#25 and #26). Officially they are connected with domestic Korean train Tumangan-Pyongyang. Previously running carriages via China canceled.
Also, as far as we know, RZD closed sale of tickets for this new carriages for any domestic routes in Russia.
It also seems that there are RZD sleeping-cars Novossibirsk-Beijing running via Naushki, on supposedly Chinese-fitted Train 003/004.
Well, within RZD it is a usual practice when the train consists of carriages coming from different companies.
Paid website, what do you exactly mean?
Primarily meaning http://www.express-3.ru/ , as far as we know, it the only webresource actually showing real time international fares (including MPT). But in order to gain access, you need paid subscription ("Доступ к системе "АСУ Экспресс" в справочном режиме можно получить, оформив подписку на данную услугу"). But on Russian forums there are people with access to such info, so if you really interested we can point out whom to ask ;)
If MPT fares are not publically avialable while only a sample of MGPT fares is advertised, comparing fare options isn't gonna be that easy.
Actual tariff table definitely kept in secret with such organizations as RZD, BC etc. As far as we know, UZ is the only company which published MPT tables. But in case of comparing... well, you can always find exact real time fare for MGPT direct connections, while with MPT you only have access to potentially a bit out dates fare for direct trains (like Moscow-Bejing, Moscow-Ulan-Baator etc.).
So, I can get 30% off the full fare Frankfurt (O) (Gr) - Naushki (Gr) f I buy such ticket from CD?
Yep, Frankfurt (O) (Gr) - Naushki (Gr) cost 217.9 EUR
Is City-Star Slovakia-Russia also valid via Warsaw? or Shall I only travel via Chop (and then Bryansk) ?
Actually there are two CityStars ZSSK-RZD, one is via UZ and the other one via PKP-BC. But the later is almost twice as expensive (233 vs. 120 EUR). Plus most of foreign travelers tend to avoid Belarus, because of extra visa problems.
And I actually meant Terespol-Naushki and Terespol-Vladivostok
Well, in this case obviously Terespol-Naushki is cheaper than Terespol-Vladivostok, since till Naushki it is much shorter distance (6300+km vs. 9700+km)
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Not that recent, there are two Russian carriages running till Tumangan with "Rossiya" #1/2 train since Dec. 2010 (#25 and #26). Officially they are connected with domestic Korean train Tumangan-Pyongyang. Previously running carriages via China canceled.
Meaning that one may now travel via Tumangan without restrictions? ;-)
Whats is weird is that RZD gives both fares quotes for Moscow-Pyongyang, rather than Moscow-Pyongyang (CCMI WL) and Moscow-Tumangan (RZD WL)
Also, as far as we know, RZD closed sale of tickets for this new carriages for any domestic routes in Russia.
Even if your ticket is to Kasan?
Primarily meaning http://www.express-3.ru/ , as far as we know, it the only webresource actually showing real time international fares (including MPT). But in order to gain access, you need paid subscription ("Доступ к системе "АСУ Экспресс" в справочном режиме можно получить, оформив подписку на данную услугу"). But on Russian forums there are people with access to such info, so if you really interested we can point out whom to ask ;)
Yes I could be interested, thanks ;-)
Yep, Frankfurt (O) (Gr) - Naushki (Gr) cost 217.9 EUR
Is is available on-line ?
Next question is: how much for Naushki (Gr) - Beijing, possibly with a stopover in Ulaan-Baatar...
A real pity that DB didn't take over DR membership of MGPT ;-)
Actually there are two CityStars ZSSK-RZD, one is via UZ and the other one via PKP-BC. But the later is almost twice as expensive (233 vs. 120 EUR). Plus most of foreign travelers tend to avoid Belarus, because of extra visa problems.
I see your point, but travelling via Slovakia and then the Ukraine isn't always satisfactory, especially if you leave in Northwest Europe. Getting to Zilina, not to mention Bratislava, is quite a detour, and the sleepers running via Brest seem better than those via Chop.
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Meaning that one may now travel via Tumangan without restrictions?
Not exactly, more meaning that passenger can purchase ticket till Tumangan without restrictions from any station of "Rossiya" route. Whether you can actual enter N.Korea totally depends on Korean border guards in Tumangan ;)
Whats is weird is that RZD gives both fares quotes for Moscow-Pyongyang, rather than Moscow-Pyongyang (CCMI WL) and Moscow-Tumangan (RZD WL)
And even more weird that according to RZD website Moscow-Pyongyang with RZD is cheaper than Moscow-Pyongyang with Koreans, but coefficient for sleepers with RZD is much higher comparing to one with Mongolian, Chinese or Korean sleepers. The only explanation here is that RZD actually sells ticket Moscow-Pyongyang, but reservation only till Tumangan (since RZD carriages go only till that point)
Even if your ticket is to Kasan?
According to RZD you can buy tickets for those carriages only till Tumangan.
Yes I could be interested, thanks
The forum is http://mza.ru/forum (today it seems somehow down, but they will probably fix it eventually) and the person to ask is Михаил Тверской (Mihail Tverskoĭ). Not sure whether he knows English, but just in case - we can help you to draft your question in Russian.
Is is available on-line ?
No, CD sells only few types of tickets online and such complicated ones aren't in those few. So we afraid you will have to buy in person at the ticket counter. As result, it actually might make sense to go a bit further from Czech Republic and get your ticket already in Slovakia, but anyway it is totally your choice.
Next question is: how much for Naushki (Gr) - Beijing, possibly with a stopover in Ulaan-Baatar...
Since we don't have access to real time info in this case, then we can only assume, RZD website lists Irkutsk-Bejing via Naushki ticket+reservation 311 CHF, reservation part in this case shouldn't be very high, we would say around 50-60 CHF, adjust a bit for Naushki-Bejing ticket and you get the fare a bit more than 200 CHF. Reservations 2/4 Naushki-Ulan-Baator and Ulan-Baator-Bejing shouldn't cost a lot, max 100 CHF in total.
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And even more weird that according to RZD website Moscow-Pyongyang with RZD is cheaper than Moscow-Pyongyang with Koreans, but coefficient for sleepers with RZD is much higher comparing to one with Mongolian, Chinese or Korean sleepers. The only explanation here is that RZD actually sells ticket Moscow-Pyongyang, but reservation only till Tumangan (since RZD carriages go only till that point)
What do you mean by coefficient?
According to RZD you can buy tickets for those carriages only till Tumangan.
Very weird, that you may only travel on that Sleeping-car if you have a ticket to a forbidden station...
No, CD sells only few types of tickets online and such complicated ones aren't in those few. So we afraid you will have to buy in person at the ticket counter. As result, it actually might make sense to go a bit further from Czech Republic and get your ticket already in Slovakia, but anyway it is totally your choice.
The Czech Republic, and especially the stations of Cheb and Domazlice aren't that far from home, so shouldn't be too a big problem, especially as I travel once in a while through Germany.
Anyway, isn't it possible to buy this by phone and have it mailed? No travel agency known to work with CD?
Since we don't have access to real time info in this case, then we can only assume, RZD website lists Irkutsk-Bejing via Naushki ticket+reservation 311 CHF, reservation part in this case shouldn't be very high, we would say around 50-60 CHF, adjust a bit for Naushki-Bejing ticket and you get the fare a bit more than 200 CHF. Reservations 2/4 Naushki-Ulan-Baator and Ulan-Baator-Bejing shouldn't cost a lot, max 100 CHF in total.
Is its possible to travel from Ulan-Ude with :
- EWF Ticket Frankfurt (O) (Gr) -> Naushki (Gr)
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- Reservation Ulan-Ude -> Ulanbataar or Beijing
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- Ticket (MGPT or Mongolian fare ?) Naushki (Gr) -> Ulanbataar ?
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What do you mean by coefficient?
Besides standard MPT tariff table for reservations, every railway company participating in the tariff agreement has specific multiplicators or coefficients by which number from table is being multiplied, thus at the end having final sleeper reservation fare (this is primarily for adjustments with the inflation etc.). Already for a long time RZD has this coefficient rather high, at least much higher than UZ, MTZ, KZD or ZC. So at the end it influence the fare for sleepers in RZD carriages, meaning that same route with UZ, MTZ, KZD or ZC carriage would be cheaper than with RZD.
Very weird, that you may only travel on that Sleeping-car if you have a ticket to a forbidden station...
That is classic RZD, they wanted to limit use of this non premium carriages for domestic purposes and instead force people to buy tickets for "branded" main route carriages of the same 'Rossiya' train, thus pay more.
Anyway, isn't it possible to buy this by phone and have it mailed? No travel agency known to work with CD?
Hmm, as far as we know, not possible. But you can always email CD and ask, they tend to answer questions rather fast.
Is its possible to travel from Ulan-Ude with :
- EWF Ticket Frankfurt (O) (Gr) -> Naushki (Gr)
+
- Reservation Ulan-Ude -> Ulanbataar or Beijing
+
- Ticket (MGPT or Mongolian fare ?) Naushki (Gr) -> Ulanbataar ?
This is a tricky question, since on leg Ulan-Ude ->Naushki (Gr) you would have ticket and reservation issued with different tariffs, which is, as far as we know, not allowed. But on the contrary, in theory you are totally ok, since you have all the legs covered. Once GyuriFT (who is known specialist in the tariff questions), specifically asked RZD official on one of the forums about possibility of having East-West tariff ticket (in his case CityStar) till gr. point (Tumangan, Naushki etc.) and chance to buy MPT reservation to it (at that time E-W reservation were already twice-three time more expensive), the official said that such trick wouldn't work since specifically ticket is issued with one tariff, while reservation with the other.
But, since it is such tricky thing, we would not be surprised if some cashier somewhere on periphery will sell you MPT reservation for E-W ticket. We heard stories when cashiers actually managed to sell cheap as dirt domestic reservation to E-W ticket. But you can't guess how lucky you can be in this matter
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That is classic RZD, they wanted to limit use of this non premium carriages for domestic purposes and instead force people to buy tickets for "branded" main route carriages of the same 'Rossiya' train, thus pay more.
I have indeed noticed that "Rossya" seems to have brand-new sleeping-cars. Does it still convey the usual 3-class offer, or are there some Deluxe cars nw as well?
Hmm, as far as we know, not possible. But you can always email CD and ask, they tend to answer questions rather fast.
I'll try that in the coming days.
Is its possible to travel from Ulan-Ude with :
- EWF Ticket Frankfurt (O) (Gr) -> Naushki (Gr)
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- Reservation Ulan-Ude -> Ulanbataar or Beijing
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- Ticket (MGPT or Mongolian fare ?) Naushki (Gr) -> Ulanbataar ?
This is a tricky question, since on leg Ulan-Ude ->Naushki (Gr) you would have ticket and reservation issued with different tariffs, which is, as far as we know, not allowed. But on the contrary, in theory you are totally ok, since you have all the legs covered. Once GyuriFT (who is known specialist in the tariff questions), specifically asked RZD official on one of the forums about possibility of having East-West tariff ticket (in his case CityStar) till gr. point (Tumangan, Naushki etc.) and chance to buy MPT reservation to it (at that time E-W reservation were already twice-three time more expensive), the official said that such trick wouldn't work since specifically ticket is issued with one tariff, while reservation with the other.
But, since it is such tricky thing, we would not be surprised if some cashier somewhere on periphery will sell you MPT reservation for E-W ticket. We heard stories when cashiers actually managed to sell cheap as dirt domestic reservation to E-W ticket. But you can't guess how lucky you can be in this matter
I indeed see the rationale, but on ethe other hand, as EW Reservation is deerer that MGPT Reservation, it doesn't seem to make too much sense...
Pity that there are no detailed, published MPT/MGPT tables :-(
Another side issue: do yo have an idea of the kind of fares (EW+Reservation or Global fares?) applicable to the Nice-Moscow sleeper? I presume that the reply is likely to be repeated on the Paris-Moscow sleeper due from December.
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We heard stories when cashiers actually managed to sell cheap as dirt domestic reservation to E-W ticket.
Do you have any information where and how?
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I have indeed noticed that "Rossya" seems to have brand-new sleeping-cars.
It is positioned by RZD as main train of Russian Federation, so it would be surprising not to see the newest available cars in that train. But expensive fare comes also from so called "фирменность" (probably best to translate as "branded") of carriages in the train, making sleeper reservation (reservierung) part of the ticket more expensive.
Does it still convey the usual 3-class offer, or are there some Deluxe cars nw as well?
Actually they do have those 3rd class 'platkartnyi'. For a long time 'platkartnyi' carriages were missing from this train, but, as far as we remember, since last summer few of them are again included and run until now (fare for today is 9343 RUB vs. 20530 RUB in 2/4 'kupe')
I indeed see the rationale, but on ethe other hand, as EW Reservation is deerer that MGPT Reservation, it doesn't seem to make too much sense...
Another side issue: do yo have an idea of the kind of fares (EW+Reservation or Global fares?) applicable to the Nice-Moscow sleeper?
Well, it is France, so Global fare it is, as well as with Moscow-Venice carriage. The only good thing is that RZD concerning #17/18 train have Global fare table for any interstate route (at least they announced it like this), even something like Smolensk-Brest. We haven't seen the full table, but as we said earlier, 'Ekspress' now allows to see the fare real time online. So, for instance, Moscow-Terespol (for 19/05) 2/3 cost 4625.6 RUB, Moscow-Milan - 11361.1 RUB etc.
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We heard stories when cashiers actually managed to sell cheap as dirt domestic reservation to E-W ticket.
Do you have any information where and how?
One case was like four or five years ago somewhere on route to Murmansk, like Petrozavodsk or Kandalaksha, can't remember exactly. The person just showed up with international ticket and asked for reservation for domestic train till Murmansk. Guess those cashiers only new how to issued standard RZD domestic reservation, thus person got that one. But it was before that dramatic rise of E-W reservations for domestic route, so the actual difference then wasn't crucial. Other case was from Mukachevo to Kyiv few years ago. Pretty much same story - UZ domestic reservation for E-W ticket. Around that time also was a story with E-W ticket and cashiers in Kyiv trying to sell MGPT reservation to it for Kyiv-Moscow train.
Anyway, in most cases it is just not very knowledgeable cashiers and pure luck for someone getting domestic instead of E-W reservation. Unfortunately, you can't predict place and time where you might get lucky ;)
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I have indeed noticed that "Rossya" seems to have brand-new sleeping-cars.
It is positioned by RZD as main train of Russian Federation, so it would be surprising not to see the newest available cars in that train. But expensive fare comes also from so called "фирменность" (probably best to translate as "branded") of carriages in the train, making sleeper reservation (reservierung) part of the ticket more expensive.
I had the impression that "Baikal" Moscow-Irkutsk actually ranked above "Rossya"...
Another side issue: do yo have an idea of the kind of fares (EW+Reservation or Global fares?) applicable to the Nice-Moscow sleeper?
Well, it is France, so Global fare it is, as well as with Moscow-Venice carriage. The only good thing is that RZD concerning #17/18 train have Global fare table for any interstate route (at least they announced it like this), even something like Smolensk-Brest. We haven't seen the full table, but as we said earlier, 'Ekspress' now allows to see the fare real time online. So, for instance, Moscow-Terespol (for 19/05) 2/3 cost 4625.6 RUB, Moscow-Milan - 11361.1 RUB etc.
AFAIK, SNCF is party to EW Fares, isn't it?
So, one my not travel Vienna-Moscow with this train using EW Fare + Reservation then?
For the current through-car Paris-Moscow, I believe that no global fares apply. At least, there is still a TCV Paris-Forbach (fr).
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I had the impression that "Baikal" Moscow-Irkutsk actually ranked above "Rossya"...
No, historically it was St.Petersburg-Moscow trains (№1/2 during imperial times and later "Red Arrow" during Soviet times), but in second half of 20th century "Rossya" already positioned as the main train, since it runs from the capital till farthest destination and across the whole nation etc.
AFAIK, SNCF is party to EW Fares, isn't it?
Yes, but it doesn't stop SNCF from using global fare on the only trains/direct carriages. Same story with SCIC-NRT substituted by SNCF with SCIC-IRT (global price).
So, one my not travel Vienna-Moscow with this train using EW Fare + Reservation then?
No, unlike carriage Moscow-Venice (where tickets till MAV, HZ and SZ are sold with EW, while till FS with global), here (as well as with carriage Moscow-Paris) tickets from any station to any sold only using global. With EW+reservation you can use direct carriages Wien-Moscow running with "Vltava".
For the current through-car Paris-Moscow, I believe that no global fares apply. At least, there is still a TCV Paris-Forbach (fr).
As far as we know, since this carriage was introduced it always been global fare.
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No, historically it was St.Petersburg-Moscow trains (№1/2 during imperial times and later "Red Arrow" during Soviet times), but in second half of 20th century "Rossya" already positioned as the main train, since it runs from the capital till farthest destination and across the whole nation etc.
I see. "Krasnaya Strela" seems to rank still very high, even though "Grand Express" seems even higher in the scale.
AFAIK, SNCF is party to EW Fares, isn't it?
Yes, but it doesn't stop SNCF from using global fare on the only trains/direct carriages. Same story with SCIC-NRT substituted by SNCF with SCIC-IRT (global price).
I see, but perhaps RZD should have bargained a dual-system...
What about Saarbrücken Hbf - Moscow? Is EWT+Reservation available on the current Paris-Moscow through-car?
What do SCIC-NRT and SCIC-IRT mean?
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...even though "Grand Express" seems even higher in the scale.
Honestly, those quasi VIP trains run by newly established private companies can hardly lay up claims to be "train #1", it more like a kitsch, imho.
I see, but perhaps RZD should have bargained a dual-system...
What's the point? RZD is greedy enough, so they are fully ok to use global instead of regular tariff.
Is EWT+Reservation available on the current Paris-Moscow through-car?
No, tickets for this carriage is only global. So in case you want EWT+Reservation for Saarbrücken Hbf - Moscow they can sell you ticket till Saarbrücken Hbf and reservation till Berlin for instance.
What do SCIC-NRT and SCIC-IRT mean?
SCIC-NRT is a new name for TCV (since Dec.2009), while SCIC-IRT (for Integrated-Reservation Tickets, or the so-called “global price” tickets)
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The Excel Table show asomehow cheaper supplement fare in Deluxe WL on "Polonesz" than on "Moskva-Express" for Warsaw-Moscow? Is such Deluxe accommodation the same from one train to another?
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The Excel Table show asomehow cheaper supplement fare in Deluxe WL on "Polonesz" than on "Moskva-Express" for Warsaw-Moscow? Is such Deluxe accommodation the same from one train to another?
No, with "Moskva-Express" it is luxury WLSRmee carriage (#1/250) with TV and other so-called premium services. While in "Polonez" it is standard WLABm[ee].
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That s weird, because your table gives a quote for Deluxe WL on "Polonez", and so does RZD website...
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That s weird, because your table gives a quote for Deluxe WL on "Polonez", and so does RZD website...
Hmm... found so called service timetable for 'Polonez'. As it turns out, in full scheme the train has RIC-Lux carriage (#1ф), but it is so called carriage on demand, thus included only on certain occasions. While at the moment there are only standard RIC carriages running and that is what we saw when checked train scheme last time. So that is the trick, on most days there is no deluxe option on "Polonez" since simply there is no RIC-Lux carriage running, but in theory, it can be present, thus RZD lists the fare for it.