Europe Trains Guide Forum

General discussion => Train fares and tariffs => Topic started by: Maxy on June 23, 2014, 02:33:35 pm

Title: Duesseldorf - Amsterdam - Haarlem - Leiden - Gouda - Rotterdam - Rossendaal
Post by: Maxy on June 23, 2014, 02:33:35 pm
Hi, I was trying to optimize expendidures for following section of my travel: Duesseldorf - Arnhem (stopover 1 day) - Utrecht (stopover 1 day) - Amsterdam (stopover 2 days) - Haarlem (stopover few hours) - Leiden (stopover few hours) - Gouda (stopover few hours) - Rotterdam/Utrecht/Delft (stopover 2 days total for this agglomeration) - Roosendaal

I decided that I can try to cover all this by Europa Spezial Niederlande.

Last year I've did similar trick for Switzerland with Europa Spezial Schweiz and it was fine (zugbinding in ticket was only for ICE from Germany to Switherland and further long route by Switherland without zugbinding and ticket was valid for 1 month, so I've spend wonderful 9 days in Switherland using this ticket for section. But the ticket was purchased in counter (I had possibility to visit DB counter 2 month before my travel started).

This year I decided to attemtp to repeat the same trick for my new travel to Benilux, but difference was that this year I'm not able to buy ticket on DB train station in advance, so I decided to purchase online via DB website.

I managed to made DB website to show itineary with route in Netherlands Arnhem - Utrecht - Amsterdam - Haarlem - Leiden - Den Haag - Rotterdam - Roosendaal (it was not possible to make it Leiden - Rotterdam via Leiden instead via Den Haag using only 2 Ueber fields of DB website, but it's not a big issue, I've decided to purchase domestic tickets on this sections, because they are short and thus inexpensive) and purchased it online.

Probably my mistake was that I've choosen ticket delivery method as DB online ticket (PDF printable on A4), because I've never seen before how DB online ticket with zugbindung looks like and hoped it has same information like paper ticket.

But result was a little bit different as I expected.
(http://users.i.com.ua/~maxx/duess_roosend.gif)

As you can see - field VIA contains only 
<1080>D-Hbf 7:42 ICE 222 VIA: Emmerich (Gr)<1184>


I hoped to get ticket with VIA containind something like 
VIA <1080>D-Hbf 7:42 ICE 222 VIA: Emmerich (Gr)<1184>haarlem*rotterdam c.
and no other trains to be mentioned in zugbinding except ICE222 for first section. But VIA has no explanation of further route in Netherlands, but in bottom under "Ihre Reiseverbindung und Reservierung Hinfahrt am 24.07.2014" special trains are shown for domestic part within Netherlands, which is absolutely ruins my plans  - I was not expecting that my ticket will contain specific train after Arnhem  so I've choosen them on DB website not accurate, additionally accurate choosing on all section was impossible while you have just 2 Ueber fields.)

My questions are:

1. does the conditions of Europa Spezial Schweiz and Europa Spezial Nederlande differs and zugbinding in Netherlands exist. Or just specific trains for Netherlands part of my travel is result of usage of online ticket instead of paper ticket? Or may be my fears are vain and I can use any train in Netherlands in any day of my ticket validity period (15 days from 24 Jul to 07 Aug)?

2. Is there a possibility to convert already purchased Europa Spezial which was purchased as DB Online Ticket to paper ticket.
For example I can see DB Auftragsnummer on my online ticket. I've read that in some cases this number is possible to enter to DB ticket machine and get paper ticket. May be this will work in my case and I'll get paper ticket similar to the ticket I've had last year for Switzerland (with zugbinding only for ICE used on first section and route on Netherland part specified just by intermediate station in VIA field)
Title: Re: Duesseldorf - Amsterdam - Haarlem - Leiden - Gouda - Rotterdam - Rossendaal
Post by: tUt on June 27, 2014, 04:26:40 pm
Quote from: Maxy on June 23, 2014, 02:33:35 pm
1. does the conditions of Europa Spezial Schweiz and Europa Spezial Nederlande differs and zugbinding in Netherlands exist. Or just specific trains for Netherlands part of my travel is result of usage of online ticket instead of paper ticket? Or may be my fears are vain and I can use any train in Netherlands in any day of my ticket validity period (15 days from 24 Jul to 07 Aug)?
As far as we know, conditions are the same. Zugbindung outside Germany is very rare and only for a very limited number of trains (for instance ES). Plus trains shown in the lower part of the online ticket are really for a sort of timetable/reference only, important things written in the upper part, so it's not that online ticket has zugbindung and one from the ticket counter doesn't. 

Quote from: Maxy on June 23, 2014, 02:33:35 pm
2. Is there a possibility to convert already purchased Europa Spezial which was purchased as DB Online Ticket to paper ticket.
For example I can see DB Auftragsnummer on my online ticket. I've read that in some cases this number is possible to enter to DB ticket machine and get paper ticket. May be this will work in my case and I'll get paper ticket similar to the ticket I've had last year for Switzerland (with zugbinding only for ICE used on first section and route on Netherland part specified just by intermediate station in VIA field)
Never heard about possibility to print online ticket in DB ticket machine, thus perhaps it's better to ask such precise question directly via DB contact form or maybe address drehscheibe-foren.de. But anyways, if it's not possible and you don't want to temp Dutch conductor to think that schedule with specific trains in the bottom part of your online ticket is the one passenger should follow, then maybe it makes sense to try this new DB Navigator app (http://www.bahn.de/i/view/DEU/en/prices/mobile/db-navigator.shtml) for smartphones, thus turning your online ticket into smartphone ticket with barcode for the whole screen.
Title: Re: Duesseldorf - Amsterdam - Haarlem - Leiden - Gouda - Rotterdam - Rossendaal
Post by: arrivans on June 28, 2014, 02:46:42 pm
Sorry to disappoint you, but this is NOT possible in any way. The ticket itself shows NO route and thus ONLY the direct route, or quickest, is allowed. Ticket rules IN NL here are much more strict, though BE is even more strict. You intend to move like zigzag. In fact you MUST change in Arnhem to the direct train to Roosendaal, via Nijmegen-Tilburg, OR in Utrecht and Rotterdam, via Gouda, but you are allowed the full 15 days with breaks on THAT route. Anyone can print whatever he can fumble out of a computer for the traveldetails- and in fact on all routes there are trains 2 or 4 times/hr. but this means nothing.
However; checks here are quite rare and you may well get away with all that-untill you hit someone who really takes a look and will fine you for 35 eur.
After 9/7 also all local tickets here from machines are throw-away smartcards and cost 1 eur more. They do NOT allow any stopover anymore. Most main stations will then have gates and these must be activated by those smart things. On ns.nl you can easily find the cost/the discounts are not for you, as you must hold some kind of personal smartcard for that.
Suggest- stay on ICE till AMS. BUY local ticket AMS/Leiden/GOuda,then re/use the DB till Roosendaal.
You DO have Zugbinding In NL on the sector covered by the ICE, all other trains run like metro without any RES possible. This is other as for most other countries out of DE.
These selfprint DB tickets work exactly the same as the paper tickets from machines in personal sale and have same value/except that extra ID, as noted on it, is needed and may be asked for any time. Dutch controllers have access the the very same machines-system as DB itself. But most are lazy and do not bother/again, untill you hit the unexpected one taking it all very seriously, or who is in training and gets taught the whole lot.
If you do no believe me, post on forum.ns.nl/they will also accept english.
Title: Re: Duesseldorf - Amsterdam - Haarlem - Leiden - Gouda - Rotterdam - Rossendaal
Post by: Maxy on July 04, 2014, 09:30:55 pm
I've created the topic on NS forum and despite other forum mebers had doubt about validity, but NS-moderator replied, the ticket is valid for travel via Haarlem
https://forum.ns.nl/de-trein-11/europa-spezial-niederlande-validity-and-zugbinding-netherlands-3064/
Title: Re: Duesseldorf - Amsterdam - Haarlem - Leiden - Gouda - Rotterdam - Rossendaal
Post by: tUt on July 05, 2014, 11:05:29 am
Quote from: Maxy on July 04, 2014, 09:30:55 pm
I've created the topic on NS forum and despite other forum mebers had doubt about validity, but NS-moderator replied, the ticket is valid for travel via Haarlem
https://forum.ns.nl/de-trein-11/europa-spezial-niederlande-validity-and-zugbinding-netherlands-3064/
Imho, might make sense to print out and take with you the answer from NS forum moderator. Although it is kind of semi-official source, but at least something in case NS conductor will have any questions.
Title: Re: Duesseldorf - Amsterdam - Haarlem - Leiden - Gouda - Rotterdam - Rossendaal
Post by: Maxy on August 13, 2014, 09:51:07 am
I've successfully finished my travel using the ticket I've shown above.

During my travel - my Europa Spezial ticket was inspected 4 times. 1st time - in ICE222 in Germany (not interesting), 2nd time - between Haarlem and Leiden (absolutely no questions from conductor to me), 3rd time - between Rotterdam and Dordrecht (also no questions from Dutch conductors) and 4th time - between Dordrecht and Roosendaal by Belgian conductor.

And only on the last inspection the Belgian conductor was the only person who had doubts if my ticket is valid, but his doubts was related not to the route at all - he just saw the Zangenabdruck left by Dutch conductor 2 days before and told me I should use such ticket within Netherlands within 1 day despite 15 days validity period (complete nonsence I think). Obviously I objected, he tried to consult his collegue, but other conductor was disagree regarding 1 day, so angry Belgian conductor said something like "Ok, I still consider your ticket is invalid, but I don't really care much about dutch section of ticket, show me what ticket you have for after Roosendaal", I show him my ticket Roosendaal - Antwerpen, and this ticket complectly satisfy him.

Yes, I've had printed answer from NS forum, but the situation when I need to show it to conductor don't appear.

Also probably I may deduce clue why intermediate stations in Netherlands are not shown in VIA section. My deduction comes from following 3 facts:

First - before starting my travel using this ticket I decided to show it in DB Reisenzentrum. I got answer - my ticket is valid for the usage I want and I shouldn't worry regarding emtpy VIA section, lady in window was not very verbose, but just tell, that route withing Netherlands is not reflected in VIA section and it's common case.

Second - in Germany I tried to buy separate NRT ticket for section Leiden - Zoetermeer via Gouda.
I wanted to get this ticket as NRT from abroad to avoid paying 1 eur for domestic NS paper ticket with minichip inside or putting extra money to OV-chipkaart (you need not less than 20 EUR to be able to check-in in NS train). And no luck. Lady in counter agreed to issue such ticket, but after some attemts she told me - you know, something goes wrong and I got error, don't know why, you'd better try to buy this ticket locally. I made 3 different attempts in 3 different German towns (to be sure it's not a fail of a particular person) and with same result. Also on last attempt we tried to play a little - tried to replace destination - use Den Haag instead of Zoetermeer - same issue, tried to remove Gouda from via - in this case issue disappeared, but that was not the thing I've needed.

Third -  I just wanted to buy separate ticket for travel between Leiden and Zoetermeer via Gouda and decided to overpay 1 EUR for minichip paper ticket to avoid putting 20 EUR to OV-chipkaart. Ticket machinge don't allowed to choose via route and obviously proposed the route via Den Haag. I went to counter and got answer "there are no VIA in Netherlands anymore, if you want indirect route in case if allows to achieve destination faster - you may travel paying cheaper for shorter route, but if riding indirect way is not giving faster achieving the destination - you must cover your travel by 2 separate tickets".

My clue is following:
 VIA section of my Europa Spezial ticket is empty due to abolition of VIA by NS, at the same time it looks like conditions of Europa Spezial assumes that VIA exists and thus NS allows  owners of such tickets to travel such way.